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  #101  
Old 08-10-2011, 05:55 PM
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*gives Zombie a "he didn't confuse us" look*
*Gives the Unreasoner and Crispin an apologetic look.*

Sorry! I'll read better.
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  #102  
Old 08-10-2011, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7 View Post
The problem with that is that RJ said that the sun would never go nova in the world of the Wheel.

At that point, it gets a little difficult to go further in thinking about the Ages, also in part because RJ didn't take it further:
So it stands to reason plate tectonics play no role either, correct? The drifting and morphing... It must be explainable by channeling or technology or asteroids seen as gods. Or similar phenomena.

Or 'bad maps', I suppose.
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  #103  
Old 08-11-2011, 05:29 AM
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So it stands to reason plate tectonics play no role either, correct? The drifting and morphing... It must be explainable by channeling or technology or asteroids seen as gods. Or similar phenomena.

Or 'bad maps', I suppose.
you can't translate our world plate tectonics, physics and all that lot directly into a world where magic is involved. Magic can do a whole LOT of things "normal" physics can't, that's why it's called magic.
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  #104  
Old 08-11-2011, 05:37 AM
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you can't translate our world plate tectonics, physics and all that lot directly into a world where magic is involved. Magic can do a whole LOT of things "normal" physics can't, that's why it's called magic.
It's not called magic though. Well, apart from that one mention at the end of TOM, but I'm willing to let that slide so long as he never does it again.
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  #105  
Old 08-11-2011, 06:01 AM
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you can't translate our world plate tectonics, physics and all that lot directly into a world where magic is involved. Magic can do a whole LOT of things "normal" physics can't, that's why it's called magic.
Can't sleep...

This is sort of what I meant. Entropy isn't an issue basically because RJ said so. But his reasons also rule out continental drift from playing a role. All the changes must be due to things people in medieval times were aware of. Or things that are a part of the "magic" system. Basing an argument on where continents are now or how big they are cannot involve continental drift.

Although I still think this is the oddest thread I've seen in a while, partly due to what I see as its futility. It's entertaining, though.
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  #106  
Old 08-11-2011, 06:06 AM
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So it stands to reason plate tectonics play no role either, correct? The drifting and morphing... It must be explainable by channeling or technology or asteroids seen as gods. Or similar phenomena.

Or 'bad maps', I suppose.
Oh, plate tectonics and such may still play a role. But that is far too slow a process to make much of an impression on historical, or even mythological, time scales.
Evolution would be out, though, as that would tend to totally change species over the course of a couple Turns of the Wheel. Having a balefire resistant mutation pop up amongst the Forsaken would tend to affect how things turn out, I suspect.
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  #107  
Old 08-11-2011, 06:12 AM
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Can't sleep...

This is sort of what I meant. Entropy isn't an issue basically because RJ said so. But his reasons also rule out continental drift from playing a role. All the changes must be due to things people in medieval times were aware of. Or things that are a part of the "magic" system. Basing an argument on where continents are now or how big they are cannot involve continental drift.

Although I still think this is the oddest thread I've seen in a while, partly due to what I see as its futility. It's entertaining, though.
maybe you should sleep because your answer makes no sense at all.

Why should RJ's world-mechanism be based on something that mediaeval* people would understand? Especially considering the huge variety of knowledge available in the different Ages. Or are you saying that the Age of Legends was scientifically backwards compared to our commute-computerized scientific gleaming and plastic day and age? Additionally, since when is a world/universe composed in such a way that its inhabitants understand ALL the details?




*RJ's Randland isn't mediaeval at all but rather corresponds to our Modern, actually. get your time periods straight: Mediaeval - approx. 700-1200 AD Reneissance 1200-1400 AD Modern 1400-1750 AD Industrial 1750-1900 AD and contemporary 1900-now
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  #108  
Old 08-11-2011, 06:13 AM
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Having a balefire resistant mutation pop up amongst the Forsaken would tend to affect how things turn out, I suspect.
Yes...I suspect it would.

Unusual thought. Or a gholam like gene?
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  #109  
Old 08-11-2011, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
maybe you should sleep because your answer makes no sense at all.

Why should RJ's world-mechanism be based on something that mediaeval* people would understand? Especially considering the huge variety of knowledge available in the different Ages. Or are you saying that the Age of Legends was scientifically backwards compared to our commute-computerized scientific gleaming and plastic day and age? Additionally, since when is a world/universe composed in such a way that its inhabitants understand ALL the details?




*RJ's Randland isn't mediaeval at all but rather corresponds to our Modern, actually. get your time periods straight: Mediaeval - approx. 700-1200 AD Reneissance 1200-1400 AD Modern 1400-1750 AD Industrial 1750-1900 AD and contemporary 1900-now
With thanks to Marie Curie...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Q: In the Wheel of Time mythos, how do extinct animals come back into existence when the Wheel comes back around?

RJ: Well, the world I created is based on the ideas and conceptions of the world from a roughly medieval viewpoint; time being circular and such. I didn't quite try to make it completely scientifically accurate, so there really is no answer for the question.
A similar answer was given in response to the issue of the sun going nova.

I am tired (and stressed out of my mind) but I don't really see why my answer is senseless.

*I'll revisit this later, see if I follow your argument better.
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  #110  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:20 AM
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With thanks to Marie Curie...

A similar answer was given in response to the issue of the sun going nova.

I am tired (and stressed out of my mind) but I don't really see why my answer is senseless.

*I'll revisit this later, see if I follow your argument better.
mainly because it doesn't make sense to assume that the world is what you think it is. Rather like Plato discovered in the cave. Or, in this case to suppose that RJ's world is what its inhabitants can comprehend.

speaking of the inhabitants, are you suggesting that the world-logic be understandable to the smartest (say, Herid Fel) or to the dumbest? Or collectively? What happens if the cumulative intelligence of the inhabitants go up or down, does that *make* the world get more complicated or simple or was it always that way?

Seeing as that particular world was devised in the head of Robert Jordan, I would presume the answer to be self-evident.
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  #111  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:40 AM
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That wasn't really my point. I realize intelligence and awareness levels can go up or down, and collective ones too. My point was that in my mind, if the issue of the sun going nova doesn't have an answer, the issue of plate tectonics likely won't either. People in the Age of Legends knew of other planets, and so would have been capable of knowing about the lifespan of stars. My position is essentially, whatever is possible for people within RJ's world to know, we will never find out if tectonic plates even exist. Continents could move according to another mechanism entirely. Or not at all, not without human action. Just because there is no reason to assume there isn't continental drift doesn't mean there is reason for it. And the reason for no issues with stellar phenomena is a vague one, that I think could be applied to plate tectonics as well.
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  #112  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:16 AM
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TITLE: Towers of Midnight
CHAPTER: 38 - Wounds
Perrin felt unsteady on his feet, even with the staff. He'd been wounded so badly. The ground trembled. A rift opened in the ground next to him, steaming with heat and lava, like . . . Perrin started. Like Dragonmount. He looked down at the ter'angreal in his fingers. The fear-dreams of people are strong. Hopper's voice whispered in Perrin's mind. So very strong. . . . As Slayer advanced on him, Perrin gritted his teeth and hurled the ter'angreal into the river of lava.
Now, this is a dream sequence, so not real world, and it's referencing the Drangonmount, so not the best example ever. But, my point is: Perrin knows what lava is and what ground trembling means. Which indicates that he's experienced it or heard of it before and therefore it's a known phenomenon in Randland. Volcanoes and earthquakes are signs of the tectonic plates moving in our world, though they're not only that in Randland.

As Dragonmount is a volcano and is Power-generated, it doesn't necessarily mean that all volcanoes are Power-generated, but seeing as we've only seen a few of them I can't say for sure. It also doesn't mean that any lava in DM now is somehow Power-generated.

I think the Randland tectonic plates movements is similar to Randland weather. Just because it's possible to affect with the Power, does not mean that it doesn't change without the Power, via "the normal" means.
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  #113  
Old 08-11-2011, 09:00 AM
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Couldn't fall asleep...and it's too late to try.

I accept those points. Dreams generally are at least loosely based on reality. And the point regarding the weather is a solid one.

The world of WOT may indeed have continental drift. I interpreted the quote to mean that the reality of WOT was similar to the fantasy of the middle ages (not exactly the same, but similar) but I suppose that isn't exactly what it said, is it?
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  #114  
Old 08-11-2011, 09:10 AM
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The world of WOT may indeed have continental drift. I interpreted the quote to mean that the reality of WOT was similar to the fantasy of the middle ages (not exactly the same, but similar) but I suppose that isn't exactly what it said, is it?
I always did consider it weird what is generally accepted as "mediaeval" in fantasy. Just because it's fantasy, doesn't automatically make it mediaeval. Tolkien's fantasy is, but Jordan's society is more comparable to the 16th century than the 10th. Although, human nature being what it is and being very similar (if not identical) in Randland and in our reality, it really could be any time, with war, politics, power struggles, diplomacy, merchants and science... there's some of it around at all times.
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  #115  
Old 08-11-2011, 12:38 PM
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RJ has often said that it's more like 18th century. That's probably why he said 'roughly' medieval.
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  #116  
Old 08-11-2011, 12:45 PM
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Basically, anything before the 1960s counts as medieval.
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