art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Archived: General Wheel of Time Discussion - 05/2008 - 03/2012
User Name
Password

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08-04-2011, 12:27 PM
the_collective the_collective is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 141
the_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud ofthe_collective has much to be proud of
Default The Silmarillion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
It is difficult language used, but this is obviously intentional to give the language the sense of beauty and wonder it holds; a beauty which Tolkien's more well-known work only occasionally achieves, by design - it's the more Silmarillion-y bits of LOTR that have the prose of Silmarillion.
I agree that the prose can be difficult to get through. It seemed to me that it was mostly written as if it were a history book recording actual events put down by an impartial scholar. I think what Zombie was referring to in the earlier post on the subject was that this style of writing served to create the same sense of realism in the reader's mind that you're saying RJ is going for here; as if the reader were learning about actual magical events of the real-world past.

I would be Brown Ajah if I were Aes Sedai, so the scholarly no-dialogue, just-the-facts approach didn't put me off to it any. I'm glad of this, as it allowed me to finish reading the entire book and it is possibly my favorite single book of all time. It's certainly the most sadness-inducing, yet beautiful book I've come across. For all its lack of putting the reader "into the action" so to speak, with dialogue and play-by-play points of view, it moved me a great deal.
  #22  
Old 08-04-2011, 01:27 PM
Ishara's Avatar
Ishara Ishara is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,424
Ishara has disabled reputation
Send a message via MSN to Ishara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOS View Post
The Silmarillion is not exactly exciting narrative though ... I had to listen to it on tape while commuting to get through the whole thing. Felt more like background research on tLotR, which I was happy to do, but not on par with reading Fellowship or The Hobbit.
Partly because it was. You have to remember that the Silmarillion was cobbled together from notes that were not left organized in a neat pile. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay worked together on pulling together notes, drawings and extrapolating/ infering where there were gaps to create the Silmarillion. Even to this day, they both refuse to discuss just how of it they wrote and how much was found in JRRT's notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Then there is the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett, which would probably count as "even cooler" by any standard you would care to set. I do not think it is possible to decide which is better, Discworld or WoT, but the Librarian is cooler than Herid Fel, and the Patrician is way cooler than Elaida.
Completely agreed. Just started them this year and they have been, with a few glaring exceptions, some of the best books I've read. Funny, topical, poignant...excellent reading and always good food for thought there.
__________________
Courage my friends, it's not too late for a better world. -- Tommy Douglas

Rand: You are an insensitive bastard!!!
Mat: And you ruined another hat!


It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by lightening. -- Calvin

"Gee, I wish I could do magic! Maybe I'll try!" --SDog

Official Vixen of Theoryland and Theoryland Siren

Grain Goddess, the Rood Inverse, the Mad Glomper
  #23  
Old 08-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Partly because it was. You have to remember that the Silmarillion was cobbled together from notes that were not left organized in a neat pile. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay worked together on pulling together notes, drawings and extrapolating/ infering where there were gaps to create the Silmarillion. Even to this day, they both refuse to discuss just how of it they wrote and how much was found in JRRT's notes.
You can get a reasonable idea, I think, by reading the History of Middle Earth (HOME) series, but even then they picked and chose which bits were ready enough for publication.
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #24  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:02 AM
nishantjn nishantjn is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5
nishantjn is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Guys, I agree that killing off the OP would be an incredibly cruel thing to do considering how fantastically the whole structure has been created by RJ.

About Aviendha's visions, I think they were always meant to be possibilities and not actual exact foretellings.

I must say, after reading through this discussion, I am 100x more curious as to how RJ intended to marry both OP and technology in the 4th age. Because I don't think the invention of controlled electricity and the steam engine are things that are just to be allowed to fade away. They've been mentioned just once, in a not-entirely-relevant-to-the-immediate-narrative kinda way, which is RJ's signature style of telling us to watch out for major clues/hints!

As for the Silmarillion vs WoT vs Discworld discussion, I cant speak about Discworld, that is still a series I have to get into. But The Silmarillion did make for very difficult reading. :P I guess it being a collection of notes and ideas, as has been already mentioned here, would have something to do with it.
  #25  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:16 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Silmarillion was actually my 2nd favorite. It just conveyed a raw sense of awe for Tolkien's world. LotR was #1, and The Hobbit is meh.

It is interesting to wonder though...
If DO is essentially = TP (or at least would be neutered without it)
If TP and OP annihilate one another when...mixed?
If the Wheel would stop without the OP
If a stopped Wheel => Linear Time
Then...
Killing the Dark One is possible, but would permanently end channeling and circular time. In fact, maybe Time is a loop/wheel only because the Dark One exists, and the One Power is the means to destroy him. Humanity has the means to defeat the Dark One, but as long as it is content to reseal him instead, humanity is trapped in circular time.




I think I have to modify one of my 'theories in progress' now. Thanks nishantjn
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #26  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:20 AM
nishantjn nishantjn is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5
nishantjn is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

yeah that sounds interesting too.

this is turning out to be a conflict in my head though. circular time is something i wouldnt want to ruin. its too cool a concept.
  #27  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:23 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

lol maybe it's why I like the idea of a plausible end to circular time so much- I feel suffocated by the notion.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #28  
Old 08-11-2011, 10:01 AM
Weiramon's Avatar
Weiramon Weiramon is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spun out once more
Posts: 345
Weiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantjn View Post
Because I don't think the invention of controlled electricity and the steam engine are things that are just to be allowed to fade away. They've been mentioned just once, in a not-entirely-relevant-to-the-immediate-narrative kinda way, which is RJ's signature style of telling us to watch out for major clues/hints!
It would not be a surprise to hear of these steam engines, or wagons if you will, roaming back and forth between Tear and Cairhien.

Burn my eyes, but these new-fangled ideas are an affront! Imagine trying to replace horses as our beasts of burden! What's next, having these steam wagons replace the peasants working the fields?
__________________
Los! Los caba'drin!
  #29  
Old 08-11-2011, 10:27 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You really should listen to Weiramon, those steam-engines have gotten more attention than you might think.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #30  
Old 08-11-2011, 05:53 PM
Lupusdeusest's Avatar
Lupusdeusest Lupusdeusest is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Rainshower Coast
Posts: 552
Lupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud of
Smile

I actually found The Silmarillion the most bearable of Tolkein's works. My father gave me copies of all his works when I was 6, and, whilst the worldbuilding of LotR received some compliments, the writing received a rather stinging critique. TS, on the other had, was vastly enjoyed. (Spot the Aspie, methinks.) It would be another 4 years until I had my first WoT encounter - the PC game, would you believe it - and another 5 months after that before I read EotW for the first time. It only took 1.5 yrs before I had up to the newly-published WH, after the purchase of which my mother promptly confiscated and hid the lot of them as I was "too interested" in them.
As for the integration of Power and Tech - Have we seen any Healing techs?
  #31  
Old 08-11-2011, 06:13 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You read The Silmarillion at 6?
And I thought I was bright.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #32  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:24 PM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,073
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The Tolkien comments brought this theory/thread to mind from the Main Board (yes, there is another part to Theoryland)

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.p...c=77&theo=1415

It was a fun discussion...that sadly has comments from me that are 8 years old.

~feels old now~
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
  #33  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:38 AM
Lupusdeusest's Avatar
Lupusdeusest Lupusdeusest is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Rainshower Coast
Posts: 552
Lupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
You read The Silmarillion at 6?
And I thought I was bright.
Mum said I was born holding a book and that is why she had to have a Caesarian.
  #34  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:25 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I did simple arithmetic w/algebra at six. And I could read. But The Silmarillion would have been well beyond my ability. Good for you!
*youngling rep*
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
 

Tags
fan ending, fourth age, last battle, light


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.