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  #1  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:23 PM
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Anyone here willing to translate this?

http://web.archive.org/web/200005310...an_om_sol.html


I know we have a few Swedes!
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Old 12-09-2011, 05:52 AM
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I'm afraid that my own knowledge of Swedish no longer is good enough to manage this properly. Not even with the Swedish-Dutch dictionary I happen to have lying atop a bookcase somewhere.

Caveat: I think that my knowledge of Swedish actually never was good enough. But I do know that I've once started reading a Swedish book, and only noticed after about half a dozen pages that it wasn't actually a language I was familiar with. I had thought that it was Frisian, which I had heard quite often, but had never actually seen written down.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:36 AM
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Google translate didn't do enough of a good job?

I'll take a whack at it. Post later today
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2011, 07:46 AM
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You rock.

PS - Google Translate is alright. I know from experience that a fluent person could start there and have an easy time of it. People like me, on the other hand, start there and spend hours with dictionaries trying to figure out things like unclear sentence structure and whatnot. Sometimes a simple mistake can make a huge difference in meaning.
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2011, 08:22 AM
sleepinghour sleepinghour is offline
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I looked around for other reports from the same convention and found this one:

East of the Sun convention in Stockholm, 1995 - Brandoch Daha reporting, Sep 30 2003
http://www.catahya.net/forum/svar.as...800&forumid=46 (post #37 in the thread)

Translation:

In 1995, I helped arrange a fantasy convention in Stockholm, "East of the Sun," and one of our author guests of honor was Robert Jordan. A very nice man, I might add. In my interview with him, I asked why he wrote so much (at the time, only the first six books had been published, nota bene).

His response was interesting and enlightening. You need many words to fully tell a story, was his answer, plain and simple. There's only one reason why authors *don't* write five, six, and ten book series: They are lazy. A good story is long, complete, and omits nothing.

In other words, Robert Jordan has absolutely no clue what a good literary text looks like. Another question I asked was why men and women keep talking past each other in the books. His answer to that question was that that's how it really is. Men and women think too differently to really understand each other; that's a biological impossibility. His books simply reflect this fact.

However, I never asked why the main characters all have a mental age of thirteen. But as I said, a sympathetic Southern gentleman he is. (Though his wife was even nicer.)
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:36 AM
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Sweet. Thanks!
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2011, 08:40 AM
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I've started translating, parts of this text is not so much about Robert Jordan himself, but his whole experience there. It's not that much text so I'll translate it all, just know that most is probably not related. He also doesn't seem to think very highly of Robert Jordan it seems

It's also funny how hard it actually is to make it sound good when you translate. There are so many things that only work in swedish that I have to rework some sentences just to make it fit, words that have no real counterpart in english so I have to add to the translation, stuff that technically wasn't there.

My respect goes out to translators everywhere
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
PS - Google Translate is alright. I know from experience that a fluent person could start there and have an easy time of it. People like me, on the other hand, start there and spend hours with dictionaries trying to figure out things like unclear sentence structure and whatnot. Sometimes a simple mistake can make a huge difference in meaning.
Yeah, that's what I usually do when I have to translate longer texts. I run the text through Google Translate for a rough translation to use as a base. It takes less time to fix a semi-decent translation than to translate everything from scratch.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
I've started translating, parts of this text is not so much about Robert Jordan himself, but his whole experience there. It's not that much text so I'll translate it all, just know that most is probably not related. He also doesn't seem to think very highly of Robert Jordan it seems
Yeah, I managed to gather that much from GT. It's funny, because we've been finding a lot of reports like that lately. It's what happens when you have thoroughly ransacked the HCFF forums and you're moving on to the rest of the WWW. The one sleepinghour just translated wasn't too complimentary, and Marie found this one last night at Westeros...

Quote:
My respect goes out to translators everywhere
Mine too. I've been trying my hand at it lately despite being unilingual, so I know what you mean. I try my hand at it, and then the fluent people give me a new perspective on it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepinghour View Post
Yeah, that's what I usually do when I have to translate longer texts. I run the text through Google Translate for a rough translation to use as a base. It takes less time to fix a semi-decent translation than to translate everything from scratch.
It does help that GT is getting much better. It used to be pretty awful, to the point that I could imagine it would be easier to start from scratch. Even worse were the precursors like Babel Fish. Actually, that was one of the best precursors.
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:56 AM
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There we go, I left the two last pharagraps which had nothing to do with Robert Jordan other than the last comment about he thought a small convention like this should probably have asked someone not as famous as Jordan to come, since he became surrounded by fans all the time. Not that I know how that would be any different at a large convention though

I've made a few notations with "*" that are at the bottom of the text, either about translation or just a comment of what he wrote. Not a whole lot of interesting stuff in the post itself, I thought the guys take on the whole thing was amusing though

Lysator, where he posted this in the first place, is a computer society in Linköping University (where I am at actually). Pretty geeky/weird community, and I think it shows a bit . I am not a member of Lysator

Quote:

"Östan om sol" - East of the sun

Inspite of not going to ConFuse in 1995, I still went to some conventions. The first of them were "Östan om sol" that was held the same weekend as ConFuse would have been. It became a trip to Stockholm instead, to attend what called itself Sweden's first fantasy convention and that "tempted" with Robert Jordan, one of the biggest names in contemporary fantasy right now. Furthermore he doesn't seem to content himself with writing trilogies like every other fantasy author but extends his The Wheel of Time in seven-eight parts that on top of it all are nearly a thousand pages thick -- each.

In connection with "Östan om sol" I got an opportunity to attend a bookmeeting á la SFSF. Because I were able to get my job to send my on a jobcourse to Stockholm for four days right before "Östan om sol" were about to begin, I happened to be in place for when SFSF would discuss Michael Swanwicks The Iron Dragon's Daughter. That I hadn't read the book bothered me little, it happens as we know fairly often at LSFF's bookmeetings that not everyone has read the current book. Unsuspectingly I followed Anders Holmström down into a shady* basement where a distinct aura of cigarettsmoke already had appeared. When it was decides no more would show up, it turned out I were the only one who hadn't read the book. Slightly amazed by this I threw myself** happily into the debate still -- to not have read the book shouldn't as we know be a bar to having an opinion. After about an hour we concluded that the discussion was to an end and everyone suddently started to rise and move to the door. Not really the same as in Linköping where the book could be discussed in about 15 minutes in a five hour meeting.

Anyway -- a few days after this shocking*** experience it was time for the real convention. Now I knew at least where I was going and even though the locale was weirdly constructed it was not a cigarettesmoked basement. When I get to the reception, I don't recognize anyone except Carolina Gomez. Although it wasn't a lot of people there I thought, take my schedule and check what's going on right this moment. It turnes out an interview is just about to start with Stephen Grundy, the other guest of honor except Robert Jordan. Because I think interviews can be pretty interesting, no matter the author and partly because I have nothing else to do I go there. When I arrive I find about 50 people in the audience. After scanning the audience I find out I know only a few of them. It doesn't seem to be one person in there that I know the name of. Also, it seems like the audience average age is far lower than is usual on science fiction conventions. The only one I really recognize is Johan Anglemark that is holding the interview. Stephen Grundy prove to be a fairly short guy with long light hair and looks like an ordinary Swedish guy. Although he is an American who is at the moment writing his doctoral thesis on Odin at Uppsala University [Swedish university, translator's remarks]. A large part of the interview is also going to be about Nordic Myths. Partly, he uses them in his novel Rhinegold and also he's active in a society that devote themselves to practicing old Nordic religion. Among other things he described the society's problem in making the world know they are not because of that neo-nazi skinheads.

At the end of the interview Lars-Olov Strandberg snuck in and immortalised the whole with his camera, and I drew a sigh of relief****. Maybe it this convention would shape up, after all. A swedish science fiction convention without Lars-Olov Strandberg can hardly be imagined. After this, the only thing left that seemed interesting and that was "The uses of myth in fantasy" that was a conversation between Stephen Grundy and Robert Jordan. Stephen Grundy bases his novel on the legend of Sigrid. Robert Jordan said that he instead took all the myths he could get his hands on, read what I could find, put it all in a large pot and stir and see what floated up to the surface. I have to admit I got a little jealous when he said he read about 300 books per year. At the same time he apparently seems to be able to write a whole lot too. The subsequent debate started with the authors argumented a bit for their respective view on how to use mythology in novels. Stephen Grundy thought that you should keep yourself to one example and keep more or less true to that one. While Robert Jordan thought it was OK to borrow material from loads of different myths. If you find something you like, you should use it he said, if you then don't like the rest of the myth, just throw it away. You could either borrow something more fitting from other sources or just write in the holes yourself.

After this there was an interview with the editor Harriet McDougal (married to Robert Jordan). I think it was mostly related to the publishing business but it was rather boring so I left them fairly soon. After a walk through the different rooms I finally went home to my bed at the other end of the city.

In the midmorning on Saturday there was nothing interesting scheduled so I took that time to eat and look through the Science Fiction bookstores assortment. When I understood that there actually was an interview taking place I came in just as an intervie with Robert Jordan was ending. Of the little I heard it was mostly about his own works which it seemed to me everyone there except me had read so it didn't bother me much that I had missed most of it. That I was alone in not having all of JOrdan's books became apparent before his speech. While I checked out the different booths (a half dozen or so) the queue started to line up for the booksigning. It stood probably 30 people there at the most, which is a large part of all the attending the convention. I don't know exactly how many attendants the convention had but it felt like it couldn't have been more than just over a hundred. [Talks about the convention hall and how it'd difficult to get a good overview of all the convention, translator's remarks]. When I went a little closer to the queue to see what was actually going on it seemed to be a booksigning of a slightly different character than is usually going on at ConFuse. At ConFuse people often have one or a few books with them, often bought on site after recommendation by the guest of honor. Here one after the other they came with large bags with the whole Wheel of Time series in well read copies, amazingly many had the copies in hardcover. Jordan told how he used to get the american bookstores' irritation at booksignings over there. Now and again people came up to him and asked him to sign the latest hardcover installment of the series (part six or so) while telling him they hadn't read the earlier parts yet but had heard this book was supposed to be very good. He [Jordan] then recommended them to put the large expensive hardcover away and instead go get the cheaper paperback of the first part of his series and let him sign that one instead.



* = I do not know in what context he uses the word "skum" in swedish, it could mean shady, dusk, weird/funny etc..

** = directly translated, it works in swedish but I dunno if that's an accurate statement, to throw oneself into things to do, couldn't think of a better translation anyway.

*** = I am not making this up. Even though "shocking" feels a bit too much, there really isn't any better word to describe how he felt the meeting was. He doesn't get around much I guess

**** = LOL
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2011, 06:32 PM
sleepinghour sleepinghour is offline
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
The one sleepinghour just translated wasn't too complimentary, and Marie found this one last night at Westeros...
The guy who wrote the second report posted it in a forum thread from 2003 when CoT had just been released and everyone was venting their frustration about RJ and the books. So that's probably why the report was more negative than usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
At the end of the interview Lars-Olov Strandberg snuck in and immortalised the whole with his camera, and I drew a sigh of relief****. Maybe it this convention would shape up, after all. A swedish science fiction convention without Lars-Olov Strandberg can hardly be imagined.
Was going to suggest that we track down this guy and ask whether he still has the video and would be willing to upload it to YouTube, then I googled his name and found out he's 82 years old. He's what everyone in fandom aspires to be when they're old.

Last edited by sleepinghour; 12-09-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:31 PM
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I find it amusing that the guy who is head of Lysator and the SciFi society in his town, and also heading the convention ConFuse he's talking about, hasn't read ANYTHING of the stuff he's there to check out
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:33 PM
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Thanks Mort. I slept easy knowing you were taking care of it for us.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:35 AM
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Okay, I changed a few things in this. Let me know if it's okay:

Quote:
"Östan om sol" - East of the sun

Inspite of not going to ConFuse in 1995, I still went to some conventions. The first of them were (was) "Östan om sol" that was held the same weekend as ConFuse would have been. It became a trip to Stockholm instead, to attend what called itself Sweden's first fantasy convention and that "tempted" with Robert Jordan, one of the biggest names in contemporary fantasy right now. Furthermore he doesn't seem to content himself with writing trilogies like every other fantasy author but extends his The Wheel of Time in seven-eight parts that on top of it all are nearly a thousand pages thick -- each.

In connection with "Östan om sol" I got an opportunity to attend a bookmeeting á la SFSF. Because I were (was) able to get my job to send my (me) on a jobcourse (business trip) to Stockholm for four days right before "Östan om sol" were (was) about to begin, I happened to be in place for when SFSF would discuss Michael Swanwick's The Iron Dragon's Daughter. That I hadn't read the book bothered me little, it happens as we know fairly often at LSFF's bookmeetings that not everyone has read the current book. Unsuspectingly I followed Anders Holmström down into a shady* basement where a distinct aura of cigarettsmoke (cigarette smoke) already had appeared. When it was decides (decided) no more would show up, it turned out I were (was) the only one who hadn't read the book. Slightly amazed by this I still threw myself** happily into the debate still (moved to before 'threw') -- to not have (have not) read the book shouldn't as we know be a bar to having an opinion. After about an hour we concluded that the discussion was (coming) to an end and everyone suddently (suddenly) started to rise and move to the door. Not really the same as in Linköping where the book could be discussed in about 15 minutes in a five hour meeting. (this doesn't make sense really; I don't know how to change it)

Anyway -- a few days after this shocking*** experience it was time for the real convention. Now I knew at least where I was going and even though the locale was weirdly constructed it was not a cigarettesmoked (smoky) basement. When I get to the reception, I don't recognize anyone except Carolina Gomez. Although it wasn't a lot of people there I thought, (I) take my schedule and check what's going on right this moment. It turnes out an interview is just about to start with Stephen Grundy, the other guest of honor except (aside from) Robert Jordan. Because I think interviews can be pretty interesting, no matter the author and partly because I have nothing else to do I go there. When I arrive I find about 50 people in the audience. After scanning the audience I find out I know only a few of them. It (There) doesn't seem to be one person in there that I know the name of. Also, it seems like the audience average age is far lower than is usual on science fiction conventions. The only one I really recognize is Johan Anglemark that is holding the interview. Stephen Grundy prove (proved) to be a fairly short guy with long light hair and looks like an ordinary Swedish guy. Although he is an American who is at the moment writing his doctoral thesis on Odin at Uppsala University [Swedish university, translator's remarks]. A large part of the interview is also going to be about Nordic Myths. Partly, he uses them in his novel Rhinegold and also he's active in a society that devote themselves to practicing old Nordic religion. Among other things he described the society's problem in making the world know they are not because of that neo-nazi skinheads.

At the end of the interview Lars-Olov Strandberg snuck in and immortalised the whole with his camera, and I drew a sigh of relief****. Maybe it this convention would shape up, after all. A swedish science fiction convention without Lars-Olov Strandberg can hardly be imagined. After this, the only thing left that seemed interesting and that was "The uses of myth in fantasy" that was a conversation between Stephen Grundy and Robert Jordan. Stephen Grundy bases his novel on the legend of Sigrid. Robert Jordan said that he instead took all the myths he could get his hands on, read what I (he) could find, put it all in a large pot and stir and see what floated (floats - just have to make tense consistent - or is this supposed to be a direct quote?) up to the surface. I have to admit I got a little jealous when he said he read about 300 books per year. At the same time he apparently seems to be able to write a whole lot too. The subsequent debate started with the authors argumented (arguing) a bit for their respective view (views) on how to use mythology in novels. Stephen Grundy thought that you should keep yourself to one example and keep more or less true to that one. While Robert Jordan thought it was OK to borrow material from loads of different myths. If you find something you like, you should use it he said, if you then don't like the rest of the myth, just throw it away. You could either borrow something more fitting from other sources or just write in the holes yourself.

After this there was an interview with the editor Harriet McDougal (married to Robert Jordan). I think it was mostly related to the publishing business but it was rather boring so I left them fairly soon. After a walk through the different rooms I finally went home to my bed at the other end of the city.

In the midmorning on Saturday there was nothing interesting scheduled so I took that time to eat and look through the Science Fiction bookstores assortment. When I understood that there actually was an interview taking place I came in just as an intervie (interview) with Robert Jordan was ending. Of the little I heard it was mostly about his own works which it seemed to me everyone there except me had read so it didn't bother me much that I had missed most of it. That I was alone in not having (read) all of Jordan's books became apparent before his speech. While I checked out the different booths (a half dozen or so) the queue started to line up for the booksigning. It stood probably 30 people there at the most, which is a large part of all the attending the convention. I don't know exactly how many attendants the convention had but it felt like it couldn't have been more than just over a hundred. [Talks about the convention hall and how it'd difficult to get a good overview of all the convention, translator's remarks]. When I went a little closer to the queue to see what was actually going on it seemed to be a booksigning of a slightly different character than is usually going on at ConFuse. At ConFuse people often have one or a few books with them, often bought on site after recommendation by the guest of honor. Here one after the other they came with large bags with the whole Wheel of Time series in well read copies, amazingly many had the copies in hardcover. Jordan told how he used to get (draw) the american bookstores' irritation at booksignings over there. Now and again people came up to him and asked him to sign the latest hardcover installment of the series (part six or so) while telling him they hadn't read the earlier parts yet but had heard this book was supposed to be very good. He [Jordan] then recommended them to put the large expensive hardcover away and instead go get the cheaper paperback of the first part of his series and let him sign that one instead.

* = I do not know in what context he uses the word "skum" in swedish, it could mean shady, dusk, weird/funny etc.. (Shady works)

** = directly translated, it works in swedish but I dunno if that's an accurate statement, to throw oneself into things to do, couldn't think of a better translation anyway. (yes this works)

*** = I am not making this up. Even though "shocking" feels a bit too much, there really isn't any better word to describe how he felt the meeting was. He doesn't get around much I guess

**** = LOL
Okay, so some of them are nitpicky things. But there's that one open question. I've already entered the report but I'll need to go back and change that bit.
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:00 PM
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Haha, just goes to show I know less of english grammar than I think Bothers me a bit

I were, not was. Right, my grammar sucks on some parts

Intervie??

Swedish has a habit of putting words together, like cigarettesmoke. I know that's usually never the case in english, oh well.

Open ended question? What question?

All of that were grammar corrections I think, they are probably alright

That sentence about 15 minutes of a 3 hour meeting meant that normally, a discussion like that would have taken 15 minutes, but the meeting as a whole would be 3 hours, talking around the subject or about other things that interested them. This type of meeting apparently only discussed the books and held that very strictly and not very in depth. I more or less directly translated that sentence, why it probably sounded strange It was coherent in Swedish though
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mort View Post
Haha, just goes to show I know less of english grammar than I think Bothers me a bit

I were, not was. Right, my grammar sucks on some parts
No, no...I put the correct word in parentheses. The bolded bits are what you had. So it's "I was". "The first of them" is one of those weird ones; you have to delete the prepositional phrase. "The first was".

Quote:
Open ended question? What question?
The bit with a lot of bold that I said doesn't make any sense:


Quote:
Not really the same as in Linköping where the book could be discussed in about 15 minutes in a five hour meeting. (this doesn't make sense really; I don't know how to change it)
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:20 PM
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No, no...I put the correct word in parentheses. The bolded bits are what you had. So it's "I was". "The first of them" is one of those weird ones; you have to delete the prepositional phrase. "The first was".


The bit with a lot of bold that I said doesn't make any sense:
LOl, I can't even remember what phrase I used, or even bother to look it up. I blame the alcohol, totally.

As I said, I had to change a few sentences to even make (grammatical and symantical) sense in English, I guess there were a few that I didn't recognize as weird, since Swedish allows pretty much anything
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:23 PM
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Heh, maybe sleepinghour can make sense of it. Of course, since she's not an alcoholic, she probably went to bed a long time ago. Good news is she'll probably wake up soon.

Edit: Oh, I see Mort took care of it in a stealth edit. I'll have to think of how to word it.
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Last edited by Terez; 12-10-2011 at 11:48 PM.
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