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Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Archived: General Wheel of Time Discussion - 05/2008 - 03/2012
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  #1  
Old 01-21-2012, 01:28 PM
LawnchairSoda LawnchairSoda is offline
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Default Rand, Cyndane, and Moggy use Callandor?

Heh, I know it's out there, but what if Rand takes over Moridin's body and he's got the mindtraps and can control them. Maybe since there's no buffer on Callandor he knows it'll kill whoever he uses it with because it'll take so much of the power to seal the Dark One that they all die. so he uses them cause who cares if they die. Or maybe it doesn't kill them, just burns them out. I know it's crazy, whatcha think?
  #2  
Old 01-21-2012, 03:04 PM
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It's been observed before that there are certain parallels between the remaining Forsaken and higher level agents of the Shadow, and the series main heroic characters. Perhaps examining Moridin's present "binding by twain" might in fact reveal the identities of the two who will link with Rand to use Callandor.

Moghedien is normally identified with Nynaeve in this regard since they have such history. According to the most popular and straightforward line of thinking, this would identify Cyndane with Alivia, but this doesn't really make sense when one considers the character of Cyndane, nor is Alivia what one would call a main character. Elayne, Egwene, Aviendha, and Moiraine are all potential candidates to fill that spot, but I'll need to dig up the previous discussions we've had about this matter to work out which is the single most likely.

Of course, there is one major problem both with your theory as presented and with my extrapolation: it looks like, as of the end of TOM, Moridin might also have Graendal mindtrapped to him, if indeed she lives. I'd say it's likely that she does, as Moghedien survived Shaidar Haran's... attentions, and Graendal has a much stronger personality. If that's the case, it blows the whole thing out of the water.
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wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #3  
Old 01-21-2012, 11:33 PM
LawnchairSoda LawnchairSoda is offline
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Yeah you're probably right man. It'll probably be Moiraine and Alivia. Doubt it'll be Egwene or Nynaeve, in my opinion. I feel like Egwene's got too much to deal with like organizing the Aes Sedai to fight the Last Battle. She'll be leading them, I think. And I don't know why but i don't think it'll be Nynaeve either. hey man, why do you think Graendal is mindtrapped by Moridin? I probably just missed it or forgot. does it say that or is it just an assumption? thanks
  #4  
Old 01-22-2012, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Of course, there is one major problem both with your theory as presented and with my extrapolation: it looks like, as of the end of TOM, Moridin might also have Graendal mindtrapped to him, if indeed she lives. I'd say it's likely that she does, as Moghedien survived Shaidar Haran's... attentions, and Graendal has a much stronger personality. If that's the case, it blows the whole thing out of the water.
Mesaana wasn't Mindtrapped despite getting the Hand of the Dark job treatment and we don't know if Graendal would be taken to Shayol Ghul as part of her punishment.

It would be interesting to see a 3 vs. 3 confrontation to even things out at the last battle. Rand with 2 women wielding callandor Vs. Moridin linked to Cyndane and Moghedien. Maybe Moridin will have his own sa'angreal, I don't suppose the True Power can be amplified through a circle of Forsaken, can it? Rand was technically in a circle with Semirhage through the domination band and he used the TP despite being denied control but say if it had been a real link between them borne of a partnership, could Semirhage have contributed to Rand's use of the TP? Because it doesn't look like the TP - responds to / is limited to or affected by / cares - whether there's a circle or not.
  #5  
Old 01-22-2012, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LawnchairSoda View Post
Yeah you're probably right man. It'll probably be Moiraine and Alivia. Doubt it'll be Egwene or Nynaeve, in my opinion. I feel like Egwene's got too much to deal with like organizing the Aes Sedai to fight the Last Battle. She'll be leading them, I think. And I don't know why but i don't think it'll be Nynaeve either. hey man, why do you think Graendal is mindtrapped by Moridin? I probably just missed it or forgot. does it say that or is it just an assumption? thanks
It was an assumption, and dealt with by Finn below - he's right in saying Mesaana didn't get mindtrapped, but was similarly punished by Shaidar Haran. Of course, Mesaana no longer has a mind to trap...

As to the identities of who will be in the circle to use Callandor, I'm not of the opinion that it will be Alivia. We know that she will help Rand die, but we know little else of what that means. Rand does not think it means she will kill him. Further, there is no evidence that Rand will die while using Callandor, except that Callandor might be necessary for his plan to seal the Bore. I think that Rand will link with the two women he feels he can trust the most to use Callandor, and Alivia's role will be a little different.

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Originally Posted by finn View Post
Mesaana wasn't Mindtrapped despite getting the Hand of the Dark job treatment and we don't know if Graendal would be taken to Shayol Ghul as part of her punishment.

It would be interesting to see a 3 vs. 3 confrontation to even things out at the last battle. Rand with 2 women wielding callandor Vs. Moridin linked to Cyndane and Moghedien. Maybe Moridin will have his own sa'angreal, I don't suppose the True Power can be amplified through a circle of Forsaken, can it? Rand was technically in a circle with Semirhage through the domination band and he used the TP despite being denied control but say if it had been a real link between them borne of a partnership, could Semirhage have contributed to Rand's use of the TP? Because it doesn't look like the TP - responds to / is limited to or affected by / cares - whether there's a circle or not.
There is one slightly looney theory out there that the "____ in the Blight" is a second Callandor.
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Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #6  
Old 01-22-2012, 02:44 PM
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Mesaana wasn't Mindtrapped despite getting the Hand of the Dark job treatment and we don't know if Graendal would be taken to Shayol Ghul as part of her punishment.
You can tell where my mind is. I read "Dark hand job treatment" instead. And then I thought, Wait, she'd be GIVING, not getting.

I'm sick, I know.
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2012, 09:32 PM
EvilChani EvilChani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnchairSoda View Post
Heh, I know it's out there, but what if Rand takes over Moridin's body and he's got the mindtraps and can control them. Maybe since there's no buffer on Callandor he knows it'll kill whoever he uses it with because it'll take so much of the power to seal the Dark One that they all die. so he uses them cause who cares if they die. Or maybe it doesn't kill them, just burns them out. I know it's crazy, whatcha think?
I don't see Moghedien being included. I would not be surprised if Cyndane somehow gets involved, though I'm not certain how.

As for using Callandor, I think it's a red herring and not the blade that is mentioned in the prophecies (I think the sword that has to be used is Justice). I'm also now of the opinion that Rand will end up holding Callandor with two women channeling and that it will kill Rand or, possibly, cause him to be "possessed" by the Dark One.

Even more interesting would be if the DO managed to taint saidar (since women will be in control of the link through Callandor) and that is what leads someone (perhaps Moiraine, but perhaps Egwene) to balefire him to undo the tainting, but in doing so they leave the world without its champion and ultimately screw everyone until Nynaeve goes and throws him out of TAR. Basically, I've taken Terez's ideas of balefiring Rand and twisted them so that they make sense to me.
  #8  
Old 01-23-2012, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman View Post
You can tell where my mind is. I read "Dark hand job treatment" instead. And then I thought, Wait, she'd be GIVING, not getting.

I'm sick, I know.

Don't worry. You're not alone in reading it like that.
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Last edited by Lupusdeusest; 01-23-2012 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Sticky shift is sticky
  #9  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:16 AM
finn finn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman View Post
You can tell where my mind is. I read "Dark hand job treatment" instead. And then I thought, Wait, she'd be GIVING, not getting.

I'm sick, I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupusdeusest View Post
Don't worry. You're not alone in reading it like that.
It was intentional. I even had brackets to separate the words between Hand and job but decided to forgo them and not risk a ban. Shouldn't have bothered, there's more risque talk in the Gay Marriage thread.
 

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