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  #21  
Old 01-21-2012, 10:27 PM
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Will I lose my mod powers if I add the word "sucks" to the title of this thread?
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  #22  
Old 01-22-2012, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suttree View Post
Shrug. Realized I read that most recently off of Wot Wiki. Yet another thing they have wrong?

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Tyrn_sur_Paendrag_Mashera

Edit: It used to also say the claim was not taken seriously outside of Mayene but I guess it has been edited...still it is odd Tyrn didn't make a claim for the empire if he was legit. The manner in which he showed up at least casts a hint of question on his true identity..
Yeah, sometimes I think they just make stuff up. Where did they get the year 1004 from, and all that stuff about the council? But it's easy enough to see why he wouldn't make a claim, seeing as how Hawkwing's heirs were targets. So long as he made a claim only to Mayene, he had a good chance of being overlooked. He probably didn't have anything resembling an army.
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  #23  
Old 01-22-2012, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
My apologies for this but I hope noone will mind too much if I ask this here : Why is the pattern putting Galad and Berelain together? I ask because of possible political ramifications.

Berelain is a descendant of Hawkwing. By rights, she may have as strong a claim to the throne as Tuon, even if she can't enforce her claim. But if she marries Galad, who has claim to both the throne of andor and Cairhien, she would have a stake in these two nations that Tuon would have to acknowledge one way or another.

If Tuon kills Berelain, it ends one problem brings up others such as loss of face and the possibility of Hawkwing's line becoming extinct if Tuon dies before she has any children.

If she doesn't kill the wench, she can't sit back and watch one of the blood (no family) being mocked because it would reflect on her. Badly! by right of birth, Berelain can be considered probably second to Tuon now in seanchan heirachy.

Attacking lands belonging to Berelain would be frowned on because it would no longer be seen as part of the war to reclaim lost lands.

But I'm going to far with this, I don't recall Tylee mentioning Berelain in her report. Thoughts?
I'd say that might be exactly why the Pattern is putting Galad and Berelain together. I see Galad ultimately having some ruling stake in Cairhien, which it seems likely will end up merging to form a super-state with Andor. Galad's symbolism, as a Child of the Light, puts him perfectly in place to rule the nation whose sigil is a rising sun, especially after TG. If Tuon is unwilling or unable to make war against lands ruled or influenced by another of Hawkwing's line, that gives her an excuse not to invade "Toy's" homeland. She may demand Elayne step aside or relinquish some of her territory to a steward in order to limit the worldly power of an Aes Sedai. In any case, I think Berelain's Hawkwing heritage might be key to halting the Seanchan expansion, hence why she is pushed into a relationship with someone having ties to the throne of two nations and command of a small army.
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2012, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
In any case, I think Berelain's Hawkwing heritage might be key to halting the Seanchan expansion, hence why she is pushed into a relationship with someone having ties to the throne of two nations and command of a small army.
as I said, that's if Tuon forgoes the option of killing her outright. And she could be the rallying point for those who are opposed to Tuon but who do not stand high enough to pose a problem. I suppose Mat could also be used in similar fashion given his ignorance of seanchan ways and politics.

And Tuon style seems very different from Berelain's. I don't know if they'll get on well together at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David sellig
They are the hottest persons alive (Lanfear's old body is gone). Is that not a good enough reason? Think of their children. The Pattern wants to raise the beauty standards in Randland
Hottest? You meaning taking the shine of the empress and her randy man? Isn't that one more reason for Tuon to axe Berelain? If its too shaming, use a knife!
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2012, 03:35 AM
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Was the 'artist' who drew the picture of Galad for the CCG an ardent Buffy fan? Or is David Boreanaz considered the heart-throb of the Westlands.
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  #26  
Old 02-18-2012, 03:48 PM
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I found it strange that a single person could be found universally attractive. Even barring strange fettishes people still have different views as what is attractive. As such i found it strange that there is 2 Universally attractive people in the world Lanfear and Galad. They always describe Galad as beautiful which makes me think he's a pretty boy. though perhaps it just is the usual wheel of time reversal of gender roles/ words to describe different genders. Most woman in the wheel of time are described as handsome and the supposed hot guys are called beautiful. I once joking asked my brother what a handsome woman is supposed to look like. He said nice skin, big eyes, and a really square jaw. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all so there shouldn't be such a thing as a universally super attractive person that everyone find attractive.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by final death View Post
I found it strange that a single person could be found universally attractive. Even barring strange fettishes people still have different views as what is attractive. As such i found it strange that there is 2 Universally attractive people in the world Lanfear and Galad. They always describe Galad as beautiful which makes me think he's a pretty boy. though perhaps it just is the usual wheel of time reversal of gender roles/ words to describe different genders. Most woman in the wheel of time are described as handsome and the supposed hot guys are called beautiful. I once joking asked my brother what a handsome woman is supposed to look like. He said nice skin, big eyes, and a really square jaw. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all so there shouldn't be such a thing as a universally super attractive person that everyone find attractive.
Even with personal taste, we still have a general view of what we find conventionally attractive. I personally am more attracted to petite brunettes in spectacles, but I am still able to recognise that the conventional "standard" of beauty is a tall, leggy size zero blonde*. That may have a lot to do with the completely media-controlled society of much of the Western world, but this is probably also a case where RJ ignored the mechanics in favour of making them both "conventionally attractive" within his world; note that this still means we might not think them attractive at all in our world.

I'm fond of saying, in discussions of gender in WOT, that RJ tried to make an equal world and failed. I think this is a pretty good example of how; even within the world of WOT, women are given a lot more leeway of what it's "acceptable" for them to find attractive than men; or to put it another way, men can get away with more in their appearance. Note that Nynaeve's taste is clearly different from Elayne's which is different from Amys', and no-one has quite the same taste as Birgitte (yeah, okay, so there are at least three female characters with pretty much exactly the same taste in men). On the other hand, Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Galad all comment on how attractive Berelain is. With this in mind, it's difficult to see how Galad can tick literally everyone's boxes, and yet everyone seems to think he is the most drop-dead gorgeous man they've ever seen. As you rightly point out, it doesn't quite work, and I think that has to do with how much of our world is actually reflected in WOT.

*I make no judgements about whether either of these facts are good or bad in this post.
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #28  
Old 02-18-2012, 05:57 PM
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I've always been fond of the idea that there are some objective ideals of beauty. But then I've always loved the idea of the transcendentals. I think the 'tall, leggy blonde' Zombie describes is more a caricature of Beauty than Beauty itself. But facial symmetry, clear skin, shiny hair, bright eyes, no unibrow, good posture, physically fit and flexible, an easy and genuine smile...these are all things most people would put under the beauty column.

Galad is a bigger surprise than Berelain, to me. I was taught that women's tastes varied more widely than men's (and even for a specific woman, over a period (no pun intended)). But RJ is a guy, maybe he didn't think of it.

Although there are some people who are just flat-out beautiful. For instance, Catherine Zeta Jones is a beautiful person. I'm not turned on by her, but my organ isn't exactly known for its meditations on aesthetics. My girlfriend dyed her hair green once, and I just lost it. I was wrong, her normal black hair is the more objectively beautiful, but humanity hasn't evolved to the point where we aren't fooled by the likes of Cameron Diaz and other caricatures of Beauty.

(for the record, I actually don't find Cameron Diaz to be much of a turn on either. But it could be her age).
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
I've always been fond of the idea that there are some objective ideals of beauty. But then I've always loved the idea of the transcendentals. I think the 'tall, leggy blonde' Zombie describes is more a caricature of Beauty than Beauty itself. But facial symmetry, clear skin, shiny hair, bright eyes, no unibrow, good posture, physically fit and flexible, an easy and genuine smile...these are all things most people would put under the beauty column.

Galad is a bigger surprise than Berelain, to me. I was taught that women's tastes varied more widely than men's (and even for a specific woman, over a period (no pun intended)). But RJ is a guy, maybe he didn't think of it.

Although there are some people who are just flat-out beautiful. For instance, Catherine Zeta Jones is a beautiful person. I'm not turned on by her, but my organ isn't exactly known for its meditations on aesthetics. My girlfriend dyed her hair green once, and I just lost it. I was wrong, her normal black hair is the more objectively beautiful, but humanity hasn't evolved to the point where we aren't fooled by the likes of Cameron Diaz and other caricatures of Beauty.

(for the record, I actually don't find Cameron Diaz to be much of a turn on either. But it could be her age).
At the risk of derailing this into a discussion about constructions of beauty, I question the idea that you were "wrong" about your GF's hair-colour versus an objective standard. Just because someone doesn't meet the checklist you laid out doesn't mean they're not beautiful, or that it's wrong to find them beautiful, especially when we're talking purely about sexual attraction. Both women and men I know have observed the phenomenon that the better they like someone as a person, the more attractive they find them (although this is one of those things women are more likely to admit to than men). A lot more goes into beauty than just a physical checklist, I think.
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #30  
Old 02-18-2012, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by David Selig View Post
They are the hottest persons alive (Lanfear's old body is gone). Is that not a good enough reason? Think of their children. The Pattern wants to raise the beauty standards in Randland.
Maybe RJ wanted to make a point by having their kids be really ugly.
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  #31  
Old 02-18-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Both women and men I know have observed the phenomenon that the better they like someone as a person, the more attractive they find them (although this is one of those things women are more likely to admit to than men). A lot more goes into beauty than just a physical checklist, I think.
I agree, I've experienced this as well.
 


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