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Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - Non Wot Discussion Boards > Archived: Non WoT Related Discussion 09/2010 - 03/2012
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  #61  
Old 03-03-2012, 11:10 AM
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Sinistrum Sinistrum is offline
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As I understand it, if someone's paying alimony, they're not actively raising the kid. Therefore, they're not really part of the family (nuclear or otherwise). Especially if they should be paying alimony but aren't. Therefore, you're right, the bit in brackets is useless. I would find it very strange if someone was failing to pay alimony but also spending time with the children, but I'm sure it does happen.
Then you understand incorrectly. Alimony is spousal support payments, not child support. And ever someone who pays child support usually takes an active role in raising their children. They may just have their access or their decision making power limitied via court order.

Here's my main problem with my bit in brackets and why I suspect it keeps being ignored. You provide absolutely no definition for what qualifies as "strong evidence" of a parent being unfit to raise a kid. Therefore the rest of us are left to guess, making it a fairly useless statement to go by.
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Last edited by Sinistrum; 03-03-2012 at 11:12 AM.
  #62  
Old 03-03-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Your sad devotion to those ancient brackets has not helped you turn up the missing alimony payments.
I'm sure Padme appreciates the sentiment, but you can't pay alimony to the dead.
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  #63  
Old 03-03-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sinistrum View Post
Then you understand incorrectly. Alimony is spousal support payments, not child support. And ever someone who pays child support usually takes an active role in raising their children. They may just have their access or their decision making power limitied via court order.

Here's my main problem with my bit in brackets and why I suspect it keeps being ignored. You provide absolutely no definition for what qualifies as "strong evidence" of a parent being unfit to raise a kid. Therefore the rest of us are left to guess, making it a fairly useless statement to go by.
I'm not trying to write a law here. Interpret "strong evidence" how you will. I'd say abuse and neglect are the strongest reasons why someone should not be raising a child, but a black child is obviously not best placed with a white supremacist family, for example. Then again, most of the other reasons for objecting could also lead to abuse or neglect, so it's swings and roundabouts.

At the moment in the UK there appears to be a presumption against adoption. If you're the wrong race, sexuality, overweight, or have various health conditions, among other things, you're considered unsuitable as an adoptive parent. I'm suggesting that that presumption should be overturned and replaced with one that is in favour of adoption. Obviously protecting children is important, but that can be done by placing them within homes and monitoring them from time to time, rather than institutionalising them.
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  #64  
Old 03-03-2012, 12:54 PM
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Obviously protecting children is important, but that can be done by placing them within homes and monitoring them from time to time, rather than institutionalising them.
They arent protected in the children's homes anyway so what would the difference be?

and I say that as someone whos mother worked for the city childrens home for years and knew which students at school were in the system. And that the head of the department tried to run to america and got sent back after the THIRD formal investigation into his actions with the younger children.

There had apparently been dozens of complaints from the kids that he was abusing them but the councils view on these according to my mother is of course they accuse the staff of abusing them as it is their only way of getting pay back for being punished and not worth looking into.


Better to take your chances with maybe bad parents than stay in a system that will surround them with drug users and ignore reports of sexual abuse.
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  #65  
Old 03-03-2012, 01:28 PM
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To get back to the original point of the thread... I am not sure I disagree with the assumptions in that article.

I think at this point, we can all agree that it is impossible to point to some arbitrary point in human fetal development and declare that life beings then. Personally I believe the obvious and logical point is that moment at which the child is no longer physically connected to (read: dependant on) its mother, though I understand all the ways in which holes can be poked in that.

My point being whichever side you come down on, its a slippery slope; on one side you run the risk of coming down into the "well even newborns don't have any inherent advantage or survival instinct over a 7 month fetus", and the other is "well even sperm have the potential for life." At our stage of collective human morality, I think the best course is probably to protect the rights of the mother whenever possible, understanding that the vast, vast, vast majority of mothers will protect their children once born, or will at least have some figure in their lives that will take care of the child.

But tying it back in... why should we consider a newborn to be any more of a person than a fetus? All of the things that make us human, with the essentially unimportant factors of our DNA and the generic operational capabilities of basic bodily functions, newborns do not possess. Advanced intelligence, self-mobility, adcanved communicative ability, a basic internal system of morality... all the things that separate us from a chimp, newborns do not possess. Being a human is a genetic legacy from your parents; being a person is a right and a responsibility one grows into over time.
 


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