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  #61  
Old 03-13-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
It is for this reason that I believe that flows are not physical objects but rather abstractions in the mind of the channeler. They do not have mass, substance or temperature. (I believe that RJ has said that channelers are not actually seeing flows, they've just trained themselves to think of it that way. Help me out here, quotematers).
Is this the droids you're looking for?

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Originally Posted by INTERVIEW: Jan 25th, 2005
TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)
WEEK 9 QUESTION
When a person channels, where do the flows appear to originate from? Do they extrude themselves somehow from the person's body, or do they seem to appear out of thin air in the channeler's general vicinity? What do the flows look like to a person who can channel? Are they colored, clear or indeterminate, smooth or rough, wispy or solid?
ROBERT JORDAN
To the channeler, the flows seem to originate in his or her very immediate vicinity, not to emanate from themselves, although to another channeler, those flows do seem to be emanating from the channeler. The latter is the actual case, as the One Power is passing through the channeler, one of the reasons for individual limits on how much of the Power a particular person can handle. (And you have seen characters react as if to a blow from having a flow snapped or cut.)

A channeler sees the flows as colored very faintly, according to which of the Five Powers is involved (red = Fire, Blue = Water, green = Earth, yellow = Air, white = Spirit), although the "feel" of the flows are also different to a channeler, so that a channeler can tell one from another without actually seeing them. (That is how someone can tell that somebody else has channeled, say, Fire and Earth, in their vicinity without seeing the flows.) It isn't a physical feel; you might almost as well say that they have different flavors. They appear to be smooth and nearly transparent, tinged with color.
(I highlighted the bit that I think is what you're after)
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  #62  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:01 PM
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You guys really have no short term memory, do you?
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  #63  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:05 PM
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Try not to lump him in with the rest of us.
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  #64  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:12 PM
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Try not to lump him in with the rest of us.
Lol. Which 'him'? The guy who posted it twice, or the guy who only read it once?
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  #65  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:13 PM
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Lol. Which 'him'? The guy who posted it twice, or the guy who only read it once?
The guy who posted it twice was just too polite to point it out, actually.
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  #66  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:15 PM
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The guy who posted it twice was just too polite to point it out, actually.
It's pronounced 'British'
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  #67  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
He says he asked them not to speak about it.


Tags just narrow down the field, which is especially helpful when it's a short tag. For long tags, use CTRL-F.
Was I there when this happened? I feel like I remember Sanderson saying something like that...ah, must have been Sanderson talking about it afterward. I was in California, but not at that signing.

Last edited by Tamyrlin; 03-13-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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  #68  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Is this the droids you're looking for?



(I highlighted the bit that I think is what you're after)
Actually, those weren't the droids I was looking for. A few months ago, I asked the question of how a blind person could channel given that they can't see and if they can still "see" flows, then obviously you don't see them with your eyes.

Terez posted an RJ quote that basically explained that you don't really see flows in the traditional sense of the word. Rather your sense them and your mind interprets it as seeing them.
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  #69  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:36 PM
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It's pronounced 'British'
Actually, it's "Canadian". Although he is British.
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  #70  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
Actually, those weren't the droids I was looking for. A few months ago, I asked the question of how a blind person could channel given that they can't see and if they can still "see" flows, then obviously you don't see them with your eyes.

Terez posted an RJ quote that basically explained that you don't really see flows in the traditional sense of the word. Rather your sense them and your mind interprets it as seeing them.
Wasn't there an Aes Sedai with a particularly troubling block where she could only embrace the Power with her eyes closed? I think the relevant quote implies that you need to see, to channel.
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  #71  
Old 03-13-2012, 07:27 PM
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Yes but that might not be so much to form the flows as it is to know where to place them. You can make the weave for a gateway with your eyes closed - I think - but you might open it in the middle of a wall or so.

Obviously not all channeling is visually dependent. Healing for instance... If you're going to repair someone's ruptured spleen, you won't be able to see the damaged organ. Presumably delving tells you where to weave your flows. Obviously Nynaeve couldn't see Naeff's brain when she healed the madness.
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He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
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Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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  #72  
Old 03-13-2012, 08:45 PM
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Was I there when this happened? I feel like I remember Sanderson saying something like that...ah, must have been Sanderson talking about it afterward. I was in California, but not at that signing.
I don't know, since he never specified where it happened.
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  #73  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:10 PM
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I wonder why it was deleted. I assume whatever was in it is still canon, or else Brandon wouldn't have brought it up at all. Maybe it spoils something? And apparently for AMoL, or else why the gag order? A Taim PoV?
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  #74  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:22 PM
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I suspect that most deleted scenes were simply removed because he didn't want to give too much away. He might have found other ways to convey the pertinent information, etc.

For example, Brandon and I had a conversation about this concerning Rand's Fisher King dream in TEOTW. Brandon's first thought was that it was somehow Lews Therin's voice talking to him, which of course tells us a lot just because apparently Brandon thinks Lews Therin would have known all about it (though I'm not sure why Lews Therin would know the KC). Anyway, I told him that would be incredibly strange, and not only because Rand isn't having much in the way of memories at this point, but also because why would Lews Therin talk to him as Thom?

I think I was prepared to talk on that point because the scene has always bugged me, because it used to always make me think that I just couldn't find that scene where Thom told him about the Fisher King prophecy in the first place. So undoubtedly there's a scene somewhere with Thom telling Rand all this, and Rand's dream was supposed to be a portentous, foreshadowy recollection of that conversation.

In another dream, Thom also tells him about the Black Ajah, which as far as we know Rand has never heard of before at that point. I think the middle of TEOTW was rewritten a lot. You can tell by how he got all artsy with it around those two chapters where the dreams can be found (33-34).
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  #75  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:35 PM
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TEotW on the whole does have a pretty different feel than the other books. But Brandon's interpretation may be born from his former belief that LTT and Rand were two people, and he just never reassessed.
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  #76  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:55 PM
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Yeah, that's the impression I get of his way of thinking on the subject. Obviously he was converted, beginning with KOD (ironically with the Semirhage scene, which I did always say was more a ball in the construct camp than in the 'real' camp). But he hasn't reread the series a few times since then, so...
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  #77  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:14 AM
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But, Egwene says that she is being beaten by "Flows of Air," I do not believe that we are supposed to take her literally.
Haven't we seen Aes Sedai try to use flows of Air on Mat and fail? I don't know if it's ever said flat-out, but there's been times where the wondergirls have tried to use the Power on him and failed, and the AS he traveled with post-Ebou Dar as well. In these situations, I always assumed they were trying to grab him with Air, it's a common harmless weave that's often used to subdue somebody.

If flows of Air don't work on Mat, I'd say then it's the flows themselves that cause the affect, as opposed to say, manipulating physical air, because if that were the case, those weaves would be indirect and thus would be able to affect Mat despite the foxhead.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:24 AM
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Haven't we seen Aes Sedai try to use flows of Air on Mat and fail? I don't know if it's ever said flat-out, but there's been times where the wondergirls have tried to use the Power on him and failed, and the AS he traveled with post-Ebou Dar as well. In these situations, I always assumed they were trying to grab him with Air, it's a common harmless weave that's often used to subdue somebody.

If flows of Air don't work on Mat, I'd say then it's the flows themselves that cause the affect, as opposed to say, manipulating physical air, because if that were the case, those weaves would be indirect and thus would be able to affect Mat despite the foxhead.
Yeah, the dissent here appears to be between the position I described (where flows can, but don't necessarily have direct effect, depending on channeler intent); and the other side (where flows have no physical effect until woven into weaves, and these instances are explained by saying that "flow" is shorthand for "weave of all one type of flow").

Either one could be right, I don't think there's any way to determine which is right, and I don't really care about the difference that much.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:25 PM
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Haven't we seen Aes Sedai try to use flows of Air on Mat and fail? I don't know if it's ever said flat-out, but there's been times where the wondergirls have tried to use the Power on him and failed, and the AS he traveled with post-Ebou Dar as well. In these situations, I always assumed they were trying to grab him with Air, it's a common harmless weave that's often used to subdue somebody.

If flows of Air don't work on Mat, I'd say then it's the flows themselves that cause the affect, as opposed to say, manipulating physical air, because if that were the case, those weaves would be indirect and thus would be able to affect Mat despite the foxhead.
Okay, that's a very good question. So, let's review how Mat's medallion works. I agree that the medallion disrupts flows of the power and Not the physical effects they cause but that doesn't mean that flows are physical objects.

So let's go back to my example with Egwene Suppose Elaida traps Egwene in place with a weave of Air. The weave (flows) is not comprised of the air molecules themselves. The weave is a set of instructions that tells the air molecules how to move. So, Elaida puts a weave of Air around Egwene and the air molecules respond by thickening around her body, forming a viscous membrane that restricts her movement.

Now, let's apply the weave to Mat. Elaida channels a weave of Air to capture Mat but his medallion disrupts the flows. Remember that the flows are not air molecules in and of themselves but rather they are TELLING the air molecules how to move. So, when Elaida selects Mat as her target, the weave breaks apart and there is nothing to tell the air molecules to surround him and form a barrier. Without those instructions - and the corresponding energy from the Source - nothing happens.

Now, let's discuss why the medallion gets cold.

The medallion obviously emits some kind of disruption field that causes weaves of saidar and saidin to break apart. But what fuels the disruption field? Well, when you think about it, the medallion does the opposite of what channeling does. A weave of the power takes energy from the True Source and applies it to the physical world under a specific set of conditions. Mat's medallion takes energy from the physical form - heat - and applies to the source to disrupt a weave. That's why the medallion gets cold.

But flows and weaves are not physical things. They are instructions. They are the channeler specifying how the energy from the True Source will be directed.
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He bought two fifths of lead-free gasoline.
Said the bottle is dusty, but my engine is clean.
He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
If his bride didn't like it, St. Peter wouldn't mind.

Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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