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  #21  
Old 03-20-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AbbeyRoad View Post
I always had a soft spot for Be'lal for some odd reason. He was the most bold of the Forsaken, and came the closest to really wreaking havoc on the Light. While everyone else was developing a power base at a snail's pace, Be'lal ruled Tear, managed to goad Rand into taking Callandor, and probably would have both killed Rand and taken the sa'angreal if he didn't fall victim to the oldest evil villain trope in the book... standing and talking about how the Light was so puny and insignificant while letting Moiraine walk right up to him and pull the trigger, so to speak. But at least he had a plan came pretty close to accomplishing it.
Out of curiosity, at what point is Be'lal believed to have been freed from the DO's prison? Beginning of the same book?
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2012, 02:50 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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Given that he didn't age, like Lanfear, Sammael, Rahvin, etc., probably at about the same time - near the beginning of The Great Hunt.
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:18 PM
NaeffOfDreams NaeffOfDreams is offline
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Has the possibility of Taim = Be'lal been discussed here? Or disproved outright in interviews? It would jive with a lot of Taim's 2nd Age tendencies better than some other theories, my own 14th Chosen theory included.
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:41 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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Doubtful.

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Originally Posted by RJ
None of the Forsaken know that Osan’gar (Corlan Dashiva) is dead, but they know he’s vanished. They are pretty much sure that Sammael is dead, because he isn’t the type to remain in hiding, but think Asmodean might well be hiding out until he can figure a way to return safely. They know that Rahvin and Be’lal are dead, though some at least suspect reincarnation as Aran’gar and Osan’gar. Most have worked out that Moridin is Ishamael.
The Dark One plays some things fairly close to the chest, but I doubt he reincarnated Be'lal and didn't tell Moridin.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:07 PM
The Angry Druid The Angry Druid is offline
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Originally Posted by Seth Baker View Post
Right, I remember seeing that before. I've basically read the whole interview database, but some things escape me sometimes.

One of those situations where you have to question whether RJ was answering hypothetically or for story purposes. You have to think that if Be'lal was going to make another appearance by the Dark One's transmigration power, (A) it would happen at around the same time as Moridin/Aran'gar/Osan'gar; or at least (B) he would have RAFOed the question.
Isn't it obvious? Taim is Be'lal!

That's why Taim now moves with somewhat of a Warder's deadly grace.
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:45 PM
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Must also be why Taim has such a great respect for swordfighting...
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  #27  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:32 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Must also be why Taim has such a great respect for swordfighting...
Correction: claims to have such a great respect for it.

It is of course possible that Be'lal had been dishonest with Rand, and didn't think that using swords was very sophisticated after all. Lanfear was rather contemptuous of that Power Sword too, you may remember, but then, she's an honest and upright gal.
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:47 AM
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Correction: claims to have such a great respect for it.
Does he? Because I was being completely facetious.
Quote:
Rand looked around. "Where’s Haslin? Not drunk again? I told you, he’s only to have wine at night." Henre Haslin had been Master of the Sword for the Queen’s Guards, in charge of training recruits, until Rahvin began remaking the Guards, discarding everyone faithful to Morgase or sending them off to fight in Cairhien. Too old for campaigning, Haslin had been handed his pension and shown the gate, and when news of Morgase’s death spread through Caemlyn, he crawled into a winejar. But he thought Rahvin – Gaebril, to him – had killed Morgase, not Rand, and he could teach. When he was sober.

"I sent him away," Taim said. "What good are swords?" Another rock exploded. "I can barely avoid stabbing myself, and I’ve never felt the lack. They have the Power, now."

Kill him! Kill him now! Lews Therin’s voice echoed hollowly through the Void. Rand stamped the echo out, but he could not stamp out the anger that suddenly seemed a shell around the emptiness containing him. The Void kept his voice drained of emotion, though. "Find him, Taim, and bring him back. Tell him you have changed your mind. Tell the students that. Tell them whatever you choose, but I want him here, giving lessons every day. They need to be part of the world, not apart from it. What are they supposed to do if they can’t channel? When you were shielded by the Aes Sedai, you might still have escaped if you knew how to use a sword, how to fight with your hands."

"I did escape. Here I am."

"Some of your followers broke you free, so I heard, else you’d have ended up in Tar Valon like Logain, gentled. These men won’t have followers. Find Haslin."

The other man bowed smoothly. "As my Lord Dragon commands. Was that what brought my Lord Dragon here? Haslin and swords?" The merest hint of contempt tinged his voice, but Rand ignored it.
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It is of course possible that Be'lal had been dishonest with Rand, and didn't think that using swords was very sophisticated after all. Lanfear was rather contemptuous of that Power Sword too, you may remember, but then, she's an honest and upright gal.
I see no reason to believe he wasn't a sportsman like he claimed. Though it appears that Sammael was the one to make a career out of it. Be'lal was a lawyer.
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  #29  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Does he? Because I was being completely facetious.
Good, innit?


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I see no reason to believe he wasn't a sportsman like he claimed. Though it appears that Sammael was the one to make a career out of it. Be'lal was a lawyer.
It is possible that Be'lal would have preferred the kind of fight that Rand and Lanfear had on the docks Cairhien, but didn't dare do that, because if he killed the bumpkin too soon, then he would never get his hands on Callandor.

So Be'lal was undoubtedly good with swords, but he might still consider them rather useless for serious fights. And Taim may consider them useless for serious fights, but still be good with them.
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  #30  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:34 AM
NaeffOfDreams NaeffOfDreams is offline
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Fair enough, Terez. Forgot about Taim's disdain for swordsmanship. I know I can always count on you to think of / remember what I haven't.
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  #31  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NaeffOfDreams View Post
Taim's 2nd Age tendencies
Burn my soul, it's not as though there is any evidence of anyone who wielded large amounts of Saidin taking on the speech and mannerisms of someone from another Age.

No, Lord Taim is Lord Taim, a faithful follower of the Lord Dragon who has obeyed him at all times. Unfortunately, those who are most faithful to the Lord Dragon are often unjustly accused of going over to the Shadow.
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  #32  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:32 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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Wait, are you implying that Taim too has his Second Age self talking inside his head?
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  #33  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:57 PM
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Just that there are bits which have caused people to believe that Taim was a Forsaken in disguise, some of which were apparent 2nd Age tendencies, including his use of the phrase 'so-called Aiel'. Of course, it's not like 3rd-Agers can't speak a little Old Tongue and don't know what the word means. But it's usually 2nd-Agers (and clan chiefs and Wise Ones) who know what the Aiel used to be. Hence Taimandred and Mazridin and what have you. Though there is a theory that he was trained by Ishamael before he declared himself, and there's room for that, of course.
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  #34  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:37 PM
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Dont we have RJ comments stating that Taim is no older than 30?

Wouldnt that preclude any sort of 2nd Age/Forsaken act?

Being trained by one is definitely possible.
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  #35  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:52 PM
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I'm aware of the theories Terez, but I was responding to Weiramon, who appeared to be implying that Taim had his own personal Lews Therin in his head.
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  #36  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:57 PM
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You know, I really love Weiramon.
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  #37  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:00 PM
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Dont we have RJ comments stating that Taim is no older than 30?
Lat 20s, but some think that he's Moridin, and Moridin's body might well be in its late 20s. And if someone is using Illusion, then they'll have imitated the real Taim's features.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:32 PM
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but I was responding to Weiramon, who appeared to be implying that Taim had his own personal Lews Therin in his head.
Burn my eyes, that's a preposterous suggestion! If that were the case, one would expect such a person to take on notions of another age like scorning the sword, abandoning long held cultural affectations like wearing a beard, and referring to themselves in the third person.
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