art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > WHEEL OF TIME FORUMS > General Wheel of Time Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-18-2012, 12:52 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default The Bore and Balefire

With recent discussion about drilling the Bore and the possible connection to TAR, I decided to dust off the BWB and re-read the portion on the Bore. It's interesting to note the use of the wording of what happened immediately following the bored hole:

Quote:
"The resulting backlash destroyed the floating Sharon, shattering it like the egg it so resembled, and creating ripples in the fabric of reality as shock waves from the breach shook the Pattern."
The use of the word ripples, regarding the fabric of reality reminded me of balescreams and ripple discussions, and Sporkster's theory on the use of Balefire, and now I'm wondering the nature of the tool used to Bore through the Pattern into the Prison. We know there was a team and we know they used the One Power, but I wonder if balefire was the tool they used to create their hole through the Pattern into the DO's prison.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-18-2012, 07:49 AM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 261
Great Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to all
Default A Gateway between Tel'aran'rhiod and waking world

The ripples are an indication that a similar effect is being produced by balescreams, bubbles of evil, and the drilling of the Bore: Reshaping reality.

I posit that the tool used to drill (or fill) the Bore is a Gateway between Tel'aran'rhiod and the waking world. On the threshold of this Gateway, a place is both in Tel'aran'rhiod and in the waking world at the same time. This means you can imagine something happening and it will happen. It also means that any changes are permanent, just as any action in the waking world would be. It is the only way to affect the waking world with thought, and the only way to make permanent changes to Tel'aran'rhiod.

Balefire in Tel'aran'rhiod is more permanent, but eventually repairs itself. When Rand bakes Rahvin the damage stays there, then about a page later, it is repaired.

Damaged...
Trying to blink away the purple afterimage, he stared up at the wide hole in the marble balustrade, the remains of one column a fang above it, stared at the matching hole in the palace roof. They did not flicker, as if what he had done was too strong even for this place to mend.

Repaired!
He did nothing that she could see or feel -- of course, she could not -- but for a moment she thought the hallway behind him had... turned in some way. But it did not look any different. Except... She blinked. There was no half-gone column in the colonnade beyond him, no hole in the stone railing.

We could infer that after a certain time, balefire damage to Tel'aran'rhiod is repaired, so it does not seem potent enough to maintain a Bore.

Where balefire could come in handy is in balefiring the Gateway I suggested exists. The Dark One could be trouncing Rand with reality-bending powers, but when the Gateway is balefired, the effects of his thoughts on the real world are undone; the Dark One thought he was shaping reality, but he was only shaping Tel'aran'rhiod, and Rand is really OK.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:44 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Lord of the Dark View Post
Balefire in Tel'aran'rhiod is more permanent, but eventually repairs itself. When Rand bakes Rahvin the damage stays there, then about a page later, it is repaired.

Damaged...
Trying to blink away the purple afterimage, he stared up at the wide hole in the marble balustrade, the remains of one column a fang above it, stared at the matching hole in the palace roof. They did not flicker, as if what he had done was too strong even for this place to mend.

Repaired!
He did nothing that she could see or feel -- of course, she could not -- but for a moment she thought the hallway behind him had... turned in some way. But it did not look any different. Except... She blinked. There was no half-gone column in the colonnade beyond him, no hole in the stone railing.

We could infer that after a certain time, balefire damage to Tel'aran'rhiod is repaired, so it does not seem potent enough to maintain a Bore.
A better inference would be that you're misinterpreting this scene, though.

Maybe the damage was repaired, maybe not. But we don't know, as Rand had made a Gateway back to the normal world right there, and what Nynaeve was seeing was that the damage had not been done to the columns in the actual palace in real world Caemlyn.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:49 AM
Edynol Edynol is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 184
Edynol will become famous soon enoughEdynol will become famous soon enough
Default

Nyn wasn't there in the real world, she was there in TAR iirc.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-18-2012, 12:31 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 261
Great Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to all
Default foiled again - almost

Gonzo, The worst part is I read through the whole section so I didn't fall into the classic trap of missing the crucial tidbit in the next paragraph that explains the whole scene. In my reread I've found that the theory-making process often takes quotes out of the context and misleads you.

So here is the next scene AFTER Rand has walked away, which still illustrates my point.

Nynaeve stared at where he had been, and not at the fitfully flickering reappearance of the damage to the colonnade.

Fickering means it is not staying destroyed. Maybe the damage held so strongly beacuse Rand was there maintaining its disappearance. Maybe it just re-establishses after a while. Either way, it is not permanent even though done by balefire.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-18-2012, 01:39 PM
Sporkster Sporkster is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 19
Sporkster is just really niceSporkster is just really niceSporkster is just really niceSporkster is just really nice
Default Balefire and Gateways Are Good to Examine

So I like parts of both Tam's and GLOTD's comments - we are talking about reshaping reality and the Pattern, and both balefire and Gateways do this. Balefire burns threads from the Pattern, and Gateways affect physical location by "massaging" the Pattern. It is worth nothing that women and men build Gateways in fundamentally different ways - saidin and saidar conduct different operations on the Pattern to accomplish the same goal. It is further worth nothing that the True Power operates in a fundamentally different (and much more destructive) way to accomplish the same goal. Whether you are forcing geographically different locations together, making them look the same, or ripping apart the fabric of reality that keeps them separate, the Pattern is affected either way.

The term "Bore" is also interesting, as it implies that the AOL team burrowed through the Pattern somehow. I can see how a combination of male and female Gateway techniques, and a focused use of balefire, could produce a Bore in the Pattern that leads "outside". Burn some Pattern threads to loosen the weave, burrow through the weave via simultaneous saidin and saidar Gateways, and perhaps you can open a window.

Too bad the Dark One was looking back through that window. Next time, go for Door #2.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.