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  #61  
Old 05-30-2012, 01:23 PM
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Love Logain checking out Elayne and Nynaeve before he gets Healed. And somehow I forgot Elayne was sitting there, even though I knew Nynaeve sent her off to fetch Aes Sedai when it was done. As I was reading it I kept expecting Elayne to go off and do something else.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:45 PM
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Also. Nynaeve Healing Logain is kind of like The Price of a Ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logain
"There's no need for this, Nynaeve. Do you think I'll decide to attack a village with hundreds of Aes Sedai in it? They'd chop me to pieces before I took two steps."
It's funny seeing her scared to death, as opposed to being mad at Galad.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:55 PM
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One thing I had forgotten is that none of the Yellows would even talk to Nynaeve before she actually Healed Logain, because she was trying to find a way to Heal Siuan and Leane, and they thought she was getting above herself.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
One thing I had forgotten is that none of the Yellows would even talk to Nynaeve before she actually Healed Logain, because she was trying to find a way to Heal Siuan and Leane, and they thought she was getting above herself.
Well, she was, and then she did, and then they had a problem.
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  #65  
Old 05-31-2012, 06:14 AM
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It's funny how they all start competing after that to break her block, too. I've read quite a bit past that, and nothing much to say, except that Torval was apparently Tolvar in the first edition.
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  #66  
Old 05-31-2012, 07:34 AM
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Okay, I do have a few things to say:

1. I remembered that Anaiya had decorated Moiraine's room in New Spring (when Moiraine was raised Aes Sedai), but I'd forgotten she did Egwene's room too. Both of them complained about the lace.

2. Mat flirting with Siuan was hilarious. "I asked you once whether you'd be there when the house was burning down, boy, but it seems you make a habit of jumping into fires." Hilarious, and a good reminder of that line, which was awesome when it was said in the first place.

3. Mat getting kissed by Leane was just fantastic. It's so funny seeing Mat surrounded by a bunch of pretty women, and they're all Aes Sedai (or Halima, who he knows can channel even if no one else does, even Delana). If you count Joline, Mat has probably kissed more Aes Sedai than anyone except Logain, and that's not counting Tuon. Also, Myrelle trying to talk him into being her Warder (along with four other women including Delana) was great.

3. Vanin rocks. He managed to get in and out of Salidar without being seen by Warders not once, but twice.
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  #67  
Old 05-31-2012, 12:14 PM
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RJ really has a nice way of building to climaxes using a prelude of tedium and frustration. I get that some people don't have any appreciation for it, but I've noticed that he often uses a sort of recap style, sometimes covering a few days, before hitting you with the unexpected. (On first read anyway.) But there's a sort of cadence to the tedium and frustration.

I wanted to comment on this bit when I read it, but there were a few things that came to mind as to what exactly it foreshadowed. Now that I'm near the end with all the plotlines basically boiled down to one, save for a couple of diversions that are quite beautifully related, I'm sure it refers to the Aes Sedai (specifically the Black Ajah). I think the foreshadowing is direct, like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOC 26, Connecting Lines
Reene studied him a moment, then spread her skirts in another deep curtsy. "I will send [Elenia] to you, my Lord Dragon." Her back was stiff as she glided away, but it always was; there were no telling whether she believed a word.

"A crafty enemy," Caldin said heatedly before Reene had gone five paces, "will set a weak ambush you are meant to break through. Confident because you have dealt with the threat, your guard relaxed, you walk into the second, stronger ambush."

Right on top of Caldin, Nandera said in a cold voice, "Young men can be impetuous, young men can be rash, young men can be fools, but the Car’a’carn cannot let himself be a young man."
This is just after Rand was attacked by Fain's Whitecloaks, so it could refer to a second attack by Fain (Demira), but almost certainly refers on the larger scale to the Black Ajah manipulation of the two Aes Sedai embassies. Verin manipulated the one (making Fain unlikely for Demira), and Galina the other, presumably on orders. In Verin's defense, she was no doubt smart enough to know it would all turn out in Rand's favor, if not hers. After he fled Verin's manipulation in Caemlyn, and the magic number thirteen:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOC 50, Thorns
But despite Shaido and nobles, Wise Ones and riot, despite wondering whether Fel was ever going to come back from fishing, those days seemed... pleasant. Refreshing. Maybe it was just because he had been so tired on arrival. And maybe it really was only by comparison with those last hours in Caemlyn, yet it did seem that Lews Therin was quieter. Rand even found himself enjoying Min’s teasing enough that once or twice he had to remind himself that it was only teasing. By the time he had been ten days in Cairhien, he thought this would not be such a bad way to spend the rest of his life. Of course, he knew it could not last.
After that, RJ slips into a sort of omni-like approach, carrying over the narrative to Perrin's POV, almost like he did in TSR 9, but with proper breaks between POV shifts. "For Perrin those ten days were not pleasant at all..." and then back to Rand's POV, with "On the tenth day, Rand received another request from Coiren for an audience, just as politely worded as the first three." And of course we all know what happens next.

I find it interesting that he was very specifically not listening to the voice in his head. The voice that might have told him he was a fool to think he was sure how many Aes Sedai were in Cairhien when it had taken Min galloping across Caemlyn to warn him of the twelfth and thirteenth there. And that he was a fool to think a Red Amyrlin could be trusted half as far as any who stood against the Reds on principle. That he was a fool to trust Alviarin, or anyone who might be her 'friend'.

Back to reading.
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  #68  
Old 05-31-2012, 04:57 PM
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Last line on page 671:
Quote:
Why? That was Half Tail, passed along and scent-marked.
Even knowing what's coming, a loaded page-turn. Actually, only because you know what's coming.
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  #69  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Wat?
Would the Trolloc monument after entering the alternate world ((don't remember if it's mirror world or the other one) via the portal stone in tGH) count.
We know that it was at the place of Hawkwing's statue and that statue was in the heart ofthe city that he intended to build.


Edited: Ignore it. Mixed up Hawkwing's victory spire with Hawkwing's statue.
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  #70  
Old 05-31-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomp View Post
Would the Trolloc monument after entering the alternate world ((don't remember if it's mirror world or the other one) via the portal stone in tGH) count.
No.

Quote:
We know that it was at the place of Hawkwing's statue
Do we now.
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  #71  
Old 05-31-2012, 07:08 PM
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Done with LOC. Overall, there were a lot more annoying errors in this book than in previous books. I think maybe RJ was starting to show the strain of those diminishing returns.

One thing that bugs me in particular is the knotted shield. It doesn't make any sense; the purpose of linking is to channel all that Power as if it's just one person's Power, one person's weaves. If it's not a link then you'd think RJ could have explained it a little better.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOC 54, The Sending
"Six?" the hazel-eyed woman said incredulously. "Six could not take him. I am sure of it."

"I told you he was injured," Alanna half-wept. Perrin knew her scent well enough to pick it out; she smelled of pain. "I told you." Verin kept silent, but she smelled furious – and afraid.
That was always a point in Verin's favor, but I meant to post about this earlier in relation to what I was saying earlier about the second ambush quote, and how Verin manipulated the Caemlyn embassy into driving Rand back to Cairhien, and Galina. I can't think that Verin was ignorant of why she was being ordered to do that (and I definitely don't believe she did it because she wanted to), whether they kept her in the dark or not. They probably did keep her in the dark, but Verin isn't stupid. Perhaps she believed that they wouldn't pull it off, or perhaps she didn't believe them stupid enough to try. But I wonder what she thought it was that she was driving him toward, if not that.
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  #73  
Old 06-01-2012, 11:31 AM
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Footer quote of LOC:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOC
The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign. The seas rage, and stormclouds gather unseen. Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom. What was exalted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up. Order burns to clear his path.
The Prophecies of the Dragon translation by Jeorad Manyard Governor of the Province of Andor for the High King, Artur Paendrag Tanreall
Taim, Sheriam, and Sorilea are particularly bosomy in this book. Most of the others play lesser roles, even Verin and Galina, and they're not really in the bosom since Rand doesn't trust them. He doesn't trust Taim either, but he pretends like he does, and he gave him control of the Black Tower.

I did find it odd that RJ used a governor of Andor for this one who wasn't Endara Casalain, Ishara's mother. We know that Andor had a non-Andoran governor at first until Hawkwing relented and let the nobles of Aldeshar return. They were the last nation to fall to him, and Mat remembers being Culain, who commanded their army until Hawkwing won. But it was only something like 4 years before he relented. He ruled a long time, though, so I suppose there could have been several governors; I just thought it an odd choice.
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  #74  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:02 PM
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Does anyone have a new version (like the ebook) of ACOS? I'm wondering if this has been caught yet:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS, Lightnings
Had he been twenty years younger - well, twenty-five - and she not trained by the Tar Valon witches. It was easy to forget that, in her presence. The White Tower was a sink of iniquity and the Shadow, and she touched deeply by it. Rhadam Asunawa, the High Inquisitor, would have tried her for her months in the White Tower and hanged her without delay, had Niall allowed it.
Nevermind, I just realized what that actually says.
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  #75  
Old 06-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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Per request, all the discussion on Sorilea as a Darkfriend has been moved to its own thread in the General WOT forum. Enjoy.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:53 PM
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Thanks Marie. I cut this bit from one of my posts that also had to do with Sorilea, not that it's very exciting or anything.

____________

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS, Lightnings
Superstitious fear lanced through her as she pulled her spear free. The Aes Sedai had called wolves to fight for them. She could not take her gaze from the wolf she had killed. The Aes Sedai had... No. No! It could change nothing. She would not let it.
Makes me wonder what the superstition was. Sevanna's reaction can probably be best described as awe.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:08 PM
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This is something that gets discussed a lot, but it's been a while for me, so I can't remember really what has been said before. There's not much to discuss, exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS, The Butcher's Yard
"One," Rand cut in. "And I will choose." Taim smiled, spreading his hands in acquiescence, but the scent of frustration nearly overwhelmed anger. Again Rand pointed without looking. "Him." This time, he seemed surprised to find he was pointing directly at a man in his middle years sitting atop an upturned cask on the other side of the wagon circle, paying no attention to the gathering around Rand. Instead, elbow on his knee and chin propped on his hand, he was frowning at the Aes Sedai prisoners. The sword and Dragon glittered on the high collar of his black coat. "What is his name, Taim?"

"Dashiva," Taim said slowly, studying Rand. He smelled even more surprised than Rand did, and irritated, too. "Corlan Dashiva. From a farm in the Black Hills."

"He will do," Rand said, but he did not sound sure himself.

"Dashiva is gaining his strength rapidly, but his head is in the clouds often as not. Even when it isn't, he is not always entirely there. Maybe he's just a daydreamer, and maybe the taint on saidin is touching his brain already. Better for you to chose Torval or Rochaid or - "

Taim's opposition seemed to sweep away Rand's uncertainty. "I said Dashiva will do. Tell him he's to come with me, then turn the prisoners over to the Wise Ones and go. I don't intend to stand here all day arguing. Perrin, ready everyone to move. Find me when they are."
I like how it was Taim's arguing that made Rand sure he had picked the right guy. He obviously knew Taim was trying to put one of his lackies on him.

How much did Taim know about him? We know that every man with the Dragon pin aside from Logain is a Darkfriend, and Taim only gave it to Logain because he knew he couldn't get away with keeping it from him. Was that because of his strength, or because of his fame? Strength doesn't seem a very likely reason for it, since I doubt all the Darkfriends just so happen to be the strongest, unless Taim has been killing off strong non-Darkfriends, or turning them and sending them to the Blightfortress or something.

If Taim knew he was a Darkfriend, then he had to also know he was a very high-ranking one, in the same way that Delana knew Aran'gar was high-ranking (even though she didn't know s/he could channel). Someone Taim couldn't expect to do what he wanted, or he wouldn't have been reluctant to send him.

I know that's the obvious interpretation, but I mainly brought it up because of the literary irony aspect, which I think was really well done. And of course, at this time, the reader doesn't know that every man with the Dragon pin is a Darkfriend; we find that out later from Logain.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:24 PM
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Also, obvious hints are obvious:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 2, The Butcher's Yard
"Can you make a gateway, Dashiva?"

"Of course." Dashiva began dry-washing his hands, flicking at his lips with the tip of his tongue, and Perrin wondered whether the man was always this jittery, or just when speaking to the Dragon Reborn. "That is to say, the M'hael teaches Traveling as soon as a student shows himself strong enough."

"The M’Hael?" Rand said, blinking.

"The Lord Mazrim Taim’s title, my Lord Dragon. It means ‘leader.’ In the Old Tongue." The fellow's smile managed to be nervous and patronizing at the same time. "I read a great deal on the farm. Every book the peddlers brought by."
When I first read WoT, Winter's Heart was already out, so I don't remember if I picked up on it. But that's twice in a row he was overly defensive. It's not as if Taim couldn't have told him what M'Hael meant, but he felt the need to make up some stupid story because Taim had told Rand he was a farmer.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:07 PM
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I think someone must have complained about men only riding stallions or geldings and women only riding geldings or mares, because in the beginning of ACOS we get Kiruna with a stallion (which Rand stole) and Dashiva on a mare. Later in the book you get Egwene with a stallion, too...Kiruna's is named Tai'daishar, and Egwene's is named Daishar.

Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 3, Hill of the Golden Dawn
The Aiel were in danger of slipping away, and Rand’s enemies were coming together in one place. All it needed now was for the Forsaken to appear. And Sevanna with her Shaido. That would put the cream on the honeycake.
That's almost as good as Mat and Semirhage in WH.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 3, Hill of the Golden Dawn
"Burn the Pattern," Perrin growled. "It can all burn, if it keeps her safe." Loial’s ears went rigid with shock, and even Gaul looked taken aback.
I remember looking for that quote about a year ago and not finding it. I think I gave up because it wasn't that important, but I realize now I was looking for it in the wrong place; I was sure it came from some time during the kidnapping saga, which starts in TPOD, so I never even looked in ACOS. I remember wondering if I had imagined it (and imagined the discussions about it), but a few times after that I saw others reference it (without quoting it), so I knew it wasn't just me.
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