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  #81  
Old 06-01-2012, 09:29 PM
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Odd, I am in the midst of my own reread and you and I are almost lockstep page for page...

I noticed you speaking of editions, and I personally have bought the series in First Edition hard back since The Great Hunt came out... anyway, my current model for my reread is picking up the most recent ebook editions on my kindle fire... I have been going back and forth with my hardcovers... I have been rather surprised by some of the edition changes.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:43 PM
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Something in ACOS that caught my attention was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Crown Of Swords
Perrin certainly did not feel like laughing. An Aiel could find something funny in having a sword stuck through him. Aes Sedai on top of everything else Light! He cut straight through to what was important. "Feraighin? My wife, Faile, is she well?"

She gave him a half-distracted stare, then visibly pulled together the tatters of her poise. "I think Faile Aybara is well, Sie'cair." she said with cool composure. Or almost. She tried to sneak glances at Sorilea from the corner of her eye. Sorilea was not amused, or anything close to it; arms folded, she gave Feraighin a perusal that made the one she had given Kiruna seem mild.
I do not recall what this title means. I do not recall Perrin being called such by other Aiel, or seeing it really come up again.

Does anyone know what this term means? What it means as a title? Is it related to the prophecies that involve him? (wolfking, blacksmith hammer, and the various things in the seanchan versions)
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  #83  
Old 06-01-2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
Something in ACOS that caught my attention was:

Quote:
A Crown Of Swords
Perrin certainly did not feel like laughing. An Aiel could find something funny in having a sword stuck through him. Aes Sedai on top of everything else Light! He cut straight through to what was important. "Feraighin? My wife, Faile, is she well?"

She gave him a half-distracted stare, then visibly pulled together the tatters of her poise. "I think Faile Aybara is well, Sie'cair." she said with cool composure. Or almost. She tried to sneak glances at Sorilea from the corner of her eye. Sorilea was not amused, or anything close to it; arms folded, she gave Feraighin a perusal that made the one she had given Kiruna seem mild.
I do not recall what this title means. I do not recall Perrin being called such by other Aiel, or seeing it really come up again.

Does anyone know what this term means? What it means as a title? Is it related to the prophecies that involve him? (wolfking, blacksmith hammer, and the various things in the seanchan versions)
It's sei'cair (not sie'cair). which means 'golden eyes' or 'eyes of gold'.

Sei means 'eyes', as in sei'taer, which means 'level eyes' or sei'mosiev, which means 'lowered eyes'. (See the composite glossary entries for these definitions.)

Cair means 'golden'. See the Old Tongue Dictionary, or else recall that the original name of Cairhien, Al'cair'rahienallen, meant 'Hill of the Golden Dawn' (or that Alcair Dal means 'golden bowl').
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  #84  
Old 06-02-2012, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
When I first read WoT, Winter's Heart was already out, so I don't remember if I picked up on it. But that's twice in a row he was overly defensive. It's not as if Taim couldn't have told him what M'Hael meant, but he felt the need to make up some stupid story because Taim had told Rand he was a farmer.
Then again, this could also have been an effect of the Taint. It's not as if no other Ashaman wasn't a bit strange, now and then.
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  #85  
Old 06-02-2012, 05:23 AM
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Noticed this last night before I went to bed, and it's funny:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 3
"This is... madness." Holding his reins stiffly, Dashiva booted the plump mare closer to Randís black. Reluctance twisted his features; perhaps even Ashaíman worried at being too near Rand. "All it needs is one man with a... a bow, or a knife, and you donít see him in time. Send one of the Ashaíman to do what needs doing, or more, if you think itís necessary. A gateway to the palace, and it can be done before anyone knows what has happened."

"And sit here past dark," Rand cut in, reining his gelding around to face Dashiva, "until they know this place well enough to open one?"
Rand hadn't yet figured out that you don't need to know the ground to Travel short distances. But Dashiva could hardly explain it to him.
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  #86  
Old 06-02-2012, 06:53 AM
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I like ACOS and do not think it is a slow book, but I can see how some people get that impression. RJ used an overlap from Dumai's Wells, the aftermath, and then the walk/run into Cairhien for exposition, and it took them two whole chapters to get from the gateway to the Sun Throne. I liked it, but if you're really looking forward to what happens when they get there, it's probably pretty annoying.

I love this, in the middle of all the drama:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 5, A Broken Crown
"There... there is no need for this, Master al'Thor." Her voice became slightly unsteady for a moment. "Or my Lord Dragon, if you prefer. I assure you, I harbor no ill intentions toward you. If I did, I would have struck before you knew I was here."

"You might well have died if you had," Randís voice was icy steel; his face made it seem soft. "I'm not who has you shielded, Aes Sedai. Who are you? Why are you here? Answer me! I don't have much patience with... your kind. Unless you want to be hauled out to the Aiel camp? I wager the Wise Ones can make you speak freely."

This Annoura was not slow-witted. Her eyes darted to Aram, then to the aisle where the Ashaíman stood. And she knew. They had to be who he meant, in their black coats, grim faces dry when every other but hers and Randís glistened. Young Jahar was watching her like a hawk watching a rabbit. Incongruously, Loial stood in the midst of them with his axe propped against his shoulder. One big hand managed to hold an ink bottle and an open book, pressed awkwardly against his chest, while the other scribbled as fast as he could dip a pen fatter than Perrinís thumb. He was taking notes. Here!
Loial is so awesome. And the anonymous moment for the Asha'man, too; this is the first time Rand has used them publicly for anything.

Also, I love that this chapter is in Perrin's POV, with Faile there. Gives a double-meaning to the chapter title that I'm quite sure was intentional. Also, I wondered before if The Amyrlin's Anger was really fulfilled, and remembering this chapter, I wonder even more. This one doesn't really work as a red herring, though, since Bashere mentioned the Broken Crown to Perrin.
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  #87  
Old 06-02-2012, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 6, Old Fear, and New Fear
"Faile, I missed you more than I can say, and worried about you, but -"

"Worried about me!" she snapped, spinning to face him. She stood straight and tall, eyes fierce as those of her falcon namesake, and her fan made a coring motion toward his middle. Not part of the language of fans; she made the same gesture with a knife sometimes.
Pure Harriet. And speaking of Harriet, I like the basis for the chapter title:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 6, Old Fear, and New Fear
"If any Aes Sedai ever harms you," she whispered, "I will kill her." He believed her. "You belong to me, Perrin t'Bashere Aybara. To me." He believed that, too. As her hug grew fiercer, so did the thorny scent of jealousy. He almost chuckled. It seemed the right to put a knife in him was reserved to her. He would have chuckled, except that filament of fear remained. That, and what she had said about Maire. He could not smell himself, but he knew what was there. Fear. Old fear, and new fear, for the next time.
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  #88  
Old 06-02-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 6, Old Fear, and New Fear
That thorny scent was gone completely, and in its place was another smell of her he knew well. A smell that was her, pure and strong and clean. Add that to her eyes, and any moment she was going to say something about farmgirls at harvest. They were notorious, apparently, Saldaean farmgirls.

"As for you lying down on my grave," she went on, "if you do, my soul will haunt yours, I promise you. You will mourn me a decent time, and then you'll find yourself another wife. Someone I’d approve of, I hope." With a soft laugh, she stroked his beard. "You really aren't fit to take care of yourself, you know. I want your promise."

Best not to crack his teeth on that. Say he would not, and this wonderful mood might be swallowed in a firestorm. Quicksilver was not in it, really. Say he would... By the smell of her, every word was the Light's pure truth, but he would believe that when horses roosted in trees. He cleared his throat. "I need to bathe. I haven't seen soap in I don’t know how long. I must smell like an old barn."

Leaning against his chest, she drew a deep breath. "You smell wonderful. Like you." Her hands moved on his shoulders. "I feel as -" The door banged open.
The bolded bits made me laugh. But I seem to remember this quote having been used before in arguments that Faile would die, since usually when a woman makes a man promise to find a new wife after she dies, she does die before the story is over. Or vice-versa. But someone asked me (forget where) if Perrin could claim the throne of Saldaea without her, and I don't think he could. He could probably keep it after they'd been crowned together, but I'm honestly not even sure about that, and it would certainly seem unlikely if she died just after crowning. I think that speaks against Faile dying. There would be no point in Perrin becoming king just to die shortly thereafter, either, so it seems to speak against him dying as well.

lol, and then at the end of the chapter:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 6, Old Fear, and New Fear
"My husband," Faile breathed, "you have the courage of three men. And the sense of a child on leading strings. Why is it that as a man’s courage goes up, his sense goes down?"

Perrin grunted indignantly. He refrained from mentioning women who set themselves to spy on people who had committed murders and almost certainly knew they were spying. Women always talked about how logical they were compared to men, but for himself, he had seen precious little of it.

"Well, perhaps I don’t really want the answer even if you know it." Stretching with her arms over her head, she gave a throaty laugh. "Besides, I don’t mean to let him spoil the mood. I still feel as forward as a farmgirl at - Why are you laughing? Stop laughing at me, Perrin t'Bashere Aybara! Stop it, I say, you uncouth oaf! If you don’t -"

The only way to put an end to it was to kiss her. In her arms he forgot Rand and Aes Sedai and battles. Where Faile was, was home.
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  #89  
Old 06-02-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
The bolded bits made me laugh. But I seem to remember this quote having been used before in arguments that Faile would die, since usually when a woman makes a man promise to find a new wife after she dies, she does die before the story is over. Or vice-versa. But someone asked me (forget where) if Perrin could claim the throne of Saldaea without her, and I don't think he could. He could probably keep it after they'd been crowned together, but I'm honestly not even sure about that, and it would certainly seem unlikely if she died just after crowning. I think that speaks against Faile dying. There would be no point in Perrin becoming king just to die shortly thereafter, either, so it seems to speak against him dying as well.
Then again, Tenobia is not married, yet, is she?
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  #90  
Old 06-02-2012, 09:21 AM
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Somehow I don't see it.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:33 AM
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Faile could die, and, while dieing (or afterwards, if she really wants to), hook Perrin up with the current queen. Then he could still be king, without being married to Faile.
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  #92  
Old 06-02-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 8, The Figurehead
"Why keep [the ferrets] from the Hall, Sheriam? Surely you donít think any of them would betray your plan to Elaida." Half the sisters eyed the other half askance for fear of Elaida's sympathizers. Partly for fear of that.

"Mother, a sister who decided that what we do is a mistake would hardly let herself be chosen a Sitter. Any such would have taken herself away long since." Sheriam had not relaxed, but her voice took on the patient, instructing tone she seemed to think had the greatest effect on Egwene. Usually, though, she was more adroit at changing the subject. "Those suspicions are the worst problem we face for the time being. No one really trusts anyone. If we could only see how to -"

"The Black Ajah," Siuan cut in quietly. "Thatís what chills your blood like a silverpike up your skirts. Who can say for sure who is Black, and who can say what a Black sister might do?"

Sheriam darted another hard look at Siuan, but after a moment the force went out of her. Or rather, one sort of tension replaced another. She glanced at Egwene, then nodded, reluctantly. By the sour twist to her mouth, she would have made another evasion had it not been plain Egwene would not stand for it. Most sisters in the camp believed now, but after more than three thousand years denying the Black Ajah's existence, it was a queasy belief. Almost no one would open her mouth on that topic, no matter what they believed.
If not that, then what? I can't see how it would benefit Sheriam to keep it from the Hall, otherwise, unless it was the other sisters' fears of the Black that led them to make that decision. Sheriam was the only Black out of the six of them.
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  #93  
Old 06-02-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egwene
The Forsaken showed no signs of agelessness, for some reason. Maybe it was some effect of being connected to the Dark One.
I don't think Egwene would make it long at Theoryland. (Shut up Gonzo.) She had just spent months with the Wise Ones...
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  #94  
Old 06-02-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Then again, Tenobia is not married, yet, is she?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Somehow I don't see it.
For some reason, I had thought Tenobia was gay. I have no idea why now that I reflect upon it, other than the fact that she's notably unmarried. Has she ever shown any interest in anyone one way or the other?
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  #95  
Old 06-02-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 9, A Pair of Silverpike
"The Amyrlin Seat being valued with the White Tower itself, as the very heart of the White Tower, she must not be endangered without dire necessity, therefore unless the White Tower be at war by declaration of the Hall of the Tower, the Amyrlin Seat shall seek the lesser consensus of the Hall of the Tower before deliberately placing herself in the way of any danger, and she shall abide by the consensus that stands." What rash incident by an Amyrlin had inspired that, Egwene did not know, but it had been law for something over two thousand years.
I'm guessing that was Rashima Kerenmosa.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I'm guessing that was Rashima Kerenmosa.
That doesn't add up, does it? Rashima did that during war time. They wouldn't respond to that with a law which does allow the Amyrlin to put her life under threat during war.

I always thought the law had to do with the Amyrlin who died and had her body captured by the Whitecloaks.

What interests me is this: Did Egwene ask the Hall's permission before putting her life in the way of danger by facing Mesaana?
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:14 PM
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That doesn't add up, does it? Rashima did that during war time.
I considered that, but I have a feeling that the provision was inserted because of some debate on the subject.

Quote:
I always thought the law had to do with the Amyrlin who died and had her body captured by the Whitecloaks.
I don't see why, since the timing is off by more than a thousand years.
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:15 PM
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A few notes:

1. Daishar is a gelding; I was mistaken on that. But Kiruna had a stallion, at least. And Rand took it from her.

2. Faolain. She's a really confusing character, and I honestly don't get how she can say she's in Salidar because what Elaida did was wrong, and at the same time blame Siuan for it. How does that even make sense? For someone who would have chosen the Red (she was vocal about this herself when in the Tower; I'd forgotten that), to go to the Blue is downright strange. Some might say the Blue and the Red are rivals even more than the Green and the Red. And her whole speech to Egwene about wishing she had the Oath Rod (I think she said it four times)....gah. I don't get her. I really hope there's some explanation as to why she's that way, because otherwise she's just a badly-written red herring. It seems unlikely that Verin would have missed her; she had been in the Tower 13 years at the time of the split (8 as novice, 5 as Accepted). I don't believe she was really intended as a red herring, though; Faolain is one of the first people Min views in Salidar (she said you'd think someone like Faolain would have an unpleasant future). And we've yet to discover what this thing was she was working on. I hope it comes into play at the Black Tower battle.

3. Nicola. She's even worse than Faolain. Picks up weaves as if she already knew them. Blackmails people. Came on the boat with Moghedien. And now she's dead, and her secrets with her, if she ever had any. I wonder if we'll see Areina in AMOL. Maybe Moghedien just compelled them to make trouble in Salidar? Min viewed them, and said all three were 'trouble'. And all three 'touched Nynaeve's heart', which is just downright weird. But all three had stories that might have been designed to appeal to Nynaeve.

4. Myrelle. Why the hell didn't Egwene make Myrelle go with Lan to Ebou Dar? Was she really all that important to keep around? Oh well. She's also very annoying with Bryne; I feel sorry for her Warders. She must be really good in the sack, though; she probably uses the Power or something.

There was something else. Maybe I'll remember later.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
A few notes:
2. Faolain. She's a really confusing character, and I honestly don't get how she can say she's in Salidar because what Elaida did was wrong, and at the same time blame Siuan for it.
But tons of other AS, including Maigan, have such a view. They think Siuan was too secretive, and too manipulative, and dislike her for it. But they also think Elaida went about removing her in a criminal manner. Its hardly a weird position, especially since they don't know Siuan had excellent reasons for keeping quiet and not seeking open support.
Quote:
How does that even make sense? For someone who would have chosen the Red (she was vocal about this herself when in the Tower; I'd forgotten that), to go to the Blue is downright strange.
Not in this situation. She woke up one day and found the organization she idolized had done something she just couldn't accept. In such a case, people tend to look for exactly the opposite. They want to change their life, and the tendency is to do something exactly the opposite of before, to emphasize that change, and also to help yourself get used to it. Psychologically, it isn't all that surprising.
Quote:
Some might say the Blue and the Red are rivals even more than the Green and the Red. And her whole speech to Egwene about wishing she had the Oath Rod (I think she said it four times)....gah. I don't get her. I really hope there's some explanation as to why she's that way, because otherwise she's just a badly-written red herring. It seems unlikely that Verin would have missed her; she had been in the Tower 13 years at the time of the split (8 as novice, 5 as Accepted). I don't believe she was really intended as a red herring, though; Faolain is one of the first people Min views in Salidar (she said you'd think someone like Faolain would have an unpleasant future). And we've yet to discover what this thing was she was working on. I hope it comes into play at the Black Tower battle.
I'm confused at your confusion with her...

As I see it, she is a rigid woman, harsh and with a tendency to be unyielding, who woke up one day to find her house of cards shattered. That hasn't completely changed her, but she is trying, with spotty success. And her heart's in the right place, as Egwene recognized.

What I'm more interested in learning was what exactly Lelaine did to make her reveal whatever little of Egwene's schemes she did reveal. Egwene may gain a hook on Lelaine from that, though how that can matter this late in the game I do not know.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:22 PM
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I can't recall if this was cleared up later:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACOS 13, The Bowl of the Winds
Nynaeve gathered herself, ready to launch into an attack - Aviendha had had to listen to more than one tirade sparked by the Aes Sedai back in the Tarasin Palace and their habit of forgetting that she and Elayne were Aes Sedai too; someone not even Aes Sedai denying it might bring the shedding of blood - Nynaeve gathered herself up and opened her mouth... And Elayne silenced her with a touch on the arm and a whisper too low for Aviendha to hear. Nynaeve’s face was still crimson, and she looked about to pull her braid out slowly by the roots, yet she held her tongue. Maybe Elayne could make peace in a water-feud.
My guess for the moment is that Elayne threatened to dunk her head in a bucket of water.
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