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  #1  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:32 AM
Maesterbaevern Maesterbaevern is offline
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Default Breane Taborwin - Darkfriend?

This speculation popped up in the "Ask Us Anything" thread and I got curious.

As Breane is introduced at Barthanes' party in TGH 32, is she a Darkfriend and will she possibly betray Perrin and Faile in some way?

Will her possible relative Dobraine Taborwin be the unknown big Darkfriend?

Original question and speculations by Ieyasu.
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Breanne Taborwin. [Click!]
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2012, 11:31 AM
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Interesting, but I don't think she's important enough of a character to be the high-ranking darkfriend. And while Morgase IS a queen (or was), i doubt there'd have been a concerted effort to put a tail on her after she escaped Rahvin's control.
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2012, 11:48 AM
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Interesting, but I don't think she's important enough of a character to be the high-ranking darkfriend. And while Morgase IS a queen (or was), i doubt there'd have been a concerted effort to put a tail on her after she escaped Rahvin's control.
My thoughts were along the line of if she was a Darkfriend, she would have already made her move to assassinate Perrin (or to entice someone else to do it; perhaps she was manipulating Aram? but I don't recall any clues). Moridin has made it very clear for a couple books that killing Mat and Perrin is paramount.

However, we're guessing she might be a Darkfriend based on being at Barthanes's party. TGH was before most of the Forsaken were actively building their networks of underlings. What if she simply hasn't had any contact with Darkfriends because none of the higher-ups knew of her status and she hasn't had any connections since her "handler" died and she ran away and hooked up with a bouncer?

It does seem unnecessarily complicated, though. And Dobraine for high-ranking Darkfriend suffers the same problem Bashere does -- why the attacks to find the seals they could be hiding? Both were very trusted by Rand, and such an attack did not really make him trust them any more than prior.
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:04 PM
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I personally don't think she is a DF. I noticed her link to Dobraine by surname. But I have been thinking about her... Lots of people where at that party. Lots of those people were DF... but it was just a party, not a dark social or something. I mean you had Intgar, Verin, Barthanes, Fain and crew, but on the other side, there was Hurin, Mat, Rand, Thom, Loial, etc.

Breane as a DF doesnt make too much sense. At best you can argue she was assigned to the queens blessing because Moiraine warded out any possible shadow eyes when she made rats leave the inn alone. So in order to get a spy in there on the off chance someone important might come back to that inn, they put her in place... but that seems like a lot of effort to go through without much hope of a payoff. It is not like Breane (as a DF) would have known Mat would come back, and even when he did, she did nothing, She didnt know Morgase would come there either...

It doesnt make much sense for her to be a ineffective DF... unless it was to make a dark link to her relative Dobraine, but I am not even sure they ARE related...just have the same surname.

I do not like Dobraine for a DF either. He has been loyal and works hard for the Dragon. I don't like him as a DF. Of course there is nothing to say a likeable character cant be a DF. The only reason I question it is because of BS saying there will be a high level light side revealed as a secret DF... so I tend to look at a couple people. Bashere, Dobraine, Sorilea, etc.... anyway noticing Breane's last name is what made me start looking at Dobraine... I dont like any of these 3 characters for potential DF, as I enjoy who they are already... which I think is a good reason it most likely will be someone like that...
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:17 PM
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a secret DF... so I tend to look at a couple people. Bashere, Dobraine, Sorilea, etc....
Aye, no doubt if the Lord Dragon were channeling up a . . . storm, Lord Bashere would claw his own eyes out.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:32 PM
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Aye, no doubt if the Lord Dragon were channeling up a . . . storm, Lord Bashere would claw his own eyes out.
Aside from his DF relatives, Min also saw something dark about him... which is pretty vague for her.

Like I said, I do not like any of the higher ups being DF's right now...which is why I think it will be someone like that.

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No one except Tumad was close enough to hear him, but he spoke softly anyway, and chose his words cautiously. Sometimes, the price of carelessness was death, too. "You know where to find the man who came to me yesterday? Find him, and tell him I agree, but there will be a few more than we talked about."
Who was that man? What did he agree to? Was it Rand? Logain? Someone who knew where Rand was? I am not sure of the date for this spot as it was in the beginning of CoT when timeline was wonky because of the cleansing. Was he just looking to move his troops because Andor was heating up? Was he acting out because ransacking for the Seal was a signal he was waiting for to send that msg?


I do not think we can rule anyone out really for that DF reveal. I figure its got to be a sleeper so deep that of course we will be shocked...
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
Aside from his DF relatives, Min also saw something dark about him... which is pretty vague for her.

Like I said, I do not like any of the higher ups being DF's right now...which is why I think it will be someone like that.



Who was that man? What did he agree to? Was it Rand? Logain? Someone who knew where Rand was? I am not sure of the date for this spot as it was in the beginning of CoT when timeline was wonky because of the cleansing. Was he just looking to move his troops because Andor was heating up? Was he acting out because ransacking for the Seal was a signal he was waiting for to send that msg?


I do not think we can rule anyone out really for that DF reveal. I figure its got to be a sleeper so deep that of course we will be shocked...
Pshaw! Herb-induced ramblings of a tavern-wench. You might as well claim Lord Bashere was in the clutches of Semirhage herself, and compelled to act against the Lord Dragon.

As for this Tumad fellow, why you might as well accuse him of consorting with a false Dragon.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
Aside from his DF relatives, Min also saw something dark about him... which is pretty vague for her.
Which means it could be anything. We have good reason to believe he's not a Darkfriend, quite aside from the fact that he wasn't affected at Maradon.

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Who was that man? What did he agree to? Was it Rand? Logain?
Yes, it was Logain.

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Someone who knew where Rand was?
Logain was looking for Rand, which is why he went to Bashere, but it's not clear whether he went to Bashere for location or safe escort. The prologue appears to progress chronologically, but Logain shows up in Cairhien in the last POV, and it's not mentioned that Bashere is with him. That doesn't mean Bashere wasn't, though. They needed the Warders left behind in Cairhien to find Rand, and I'm guessing that Bashere was the one who knew they were there and that they could be used to find him.

Quote:
Was he just looking to move his troops because Andor was heating up?
I don't think he was incredibly worried about that; if he was worried about anything in Andor, it was Tenobia looking over his shoulder. He was aware that Elayne didn't like him being there, but also aware that he wasn't really hurting her by being there so long as he made no move against Arymilla.

Quote:
Was he acting out because ransacking for the Seal was a signal he was waiting for to send that msg?
The ransacking was what he told Rand about when he finally did find him, so presumably that one is straightforward. He didn't want to tell Rand about it with Logain there, and Logain didn't want to tell Rand about Taim with Bashere there.

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I do not think we can rule anyone out really for that DF reveal. I figure its got to be a sleeper so deep that of course we will be shocked...
Sorilea qualifies. Of course, since TGS we've got her figured out, but the more casual fans probably still don't have a clue.
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:39 PM
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[QUOTE=Terez;193298]Which means it could be anything. We have good reason to believe he's not a Darkfriend, quite aside from the fact that he wasn't affected at Maradon.[quote]

I agree, could be anything or nothing relevant. I do not like Bashere nor Dobraine as sleeper DarkFriends. But I am not ruling anyone out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terez
Yes, it was Logain.

Logain was looking for Rand, which is why he went to Bashere, but it's not clear whether he went to Bashere for location or safe escort. The prologue appears to progress chronologically, but Logain shows up in Cairhien in the last POV, and it's not mentioned that Bashere is with him. That doesn't mean Bashere wasn't, though. They needed the Warders left behind in Cairhien to find Rand, and I'm guessing that Bashere was the one who knew they were there and that they could be used to find him.
Not quite sure I follow how or why Bashere would think the sister's of those warders were with Rand...

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Originally Posted by terez
I don't think he was incredibly worried about that; if he was worried about anything in Andor, it was Tenobia looking over his shoulder. He was aware that Elayne didn't like him being there, but also aware that he wasn't really hurting her by being there so long as he made no move against Arymilla.
No, he wasnt too worried, I got the impression he was more worried about Tenobia being near by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terez
The ransacking was what he told Rand about when he finally did find him, so presumably that one is straightforward. He didn't want to tell Rand about it with Logain there, and Logain didn't want to tell Rand about Taim with Bashere there.
The thing I have with the ransackings is that they really are not proof of innocence. It is easy enough to toss someone's room and what not. Dobraine nearly died during his, where as Bashere's was less severe. It is easy enough to order a ransacking on someone just to try to make them appear more loyal... I am not saying that occurred in either case, just a thought to keep in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terez
Sorilea qualifies. Of course, since TGS we've got her figured out, but the more casual fans probably still don't have a clue.
Of those 3, I lean more towards your view, but I am not necessarily sold on her yet. I do think she is the most likely candidate for such a reveal.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:00 PM
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Not quite sure I follow how or why Bashere would think the sister's of those warders were with Rand...
It would have to be something off screen, but either he knew or Logain knew. If it was Logain who knew, then Logain was probably only seeking Bashere out for safe conduct, but I still suspect it was Bashere who knew, for whatever reason.

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Dobraine nearly died during his, where as Bashere's was less severe.
That seems more likely to be happenstance than anything else. Dobraine got in the way, but Bashere didn't. Deira got injured, but less severely than Dobraine because...they didn't take her seriously, or simply because she was armed and Dobraine wasn't. There's no evidence that Dobraine fought back. Considering they were armed with a letter bearing Dobraine's forged signature, I would say they were probably hoping to avoid him altogether.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:04 PM
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The way I see it, there is no way that any of the characters that interacted with Rand at any point in TofM could be the secret darkfriend because he would simply identify them, as he did with Weiramon and Anaiyella at the Stone.

This immediately clears Bashere of any suspicion, since he was with Rand for most of the book, aside from the fact that he didn't claw his eyes out at Maradon.

On the other hand, do we know if Rand had any interaction with Dobraine or Sorilea over the course of the book?
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:29 PM
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The way I see it, there is no way that any of the characters that interacted with Rand at any point in TofM could be the secret darkfriend because he would simply identify them, as he did with Weiramon and Anaiyella at the Stone.
It is a good indicator, but simple interaction is a lesser indication than presence at Maradon when Rand was letting loose. It's possible Weiramon and Anaiyella might have escaped detection if Rand hadn't 1) had a tip from Verin and 2) put them on the spot.

Quote:
On the other hand, do we know if Rand had any interaction with Dobraine or Sorilea over the course of the book?
Not in the book. Someone asked Brandon if Rand had seen Sorilea since his epiphany, and he said he 'thinks' he has.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:58 PM
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Not in the book. Someone asked Brandon if Rand had seen Sorilea since his epiphany, and he said he 'thinks' he has.
Hmmm that's not much to go on... And nothing about Dobraine, either.

Rand really just kind of left him stranded in Arad Doman in TGS after his failure, didn't he? Had him restoring order then up and left on him. He didn't catch a gateway back to Cairhein, as his absence is remarked upon by Elayne when she moves to take the Sun Throne, he wasn't at the Stone during the Weiramon reveal and to the best of my knowledge he didn't make it to Merrilor by the end of ToM.

I would be pissed if I was him. Rand even came back to Bandar Eban and didn't pick him up, or am I completely missing something?.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:15 PM
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Eh, I think we are missing a lot with that plotline. In other words, it's quite possible that Rand has seen him, but we just didn't see it on screen.
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