art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7653

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > WHEEL OF TIME FORUMS > General Wheel of Time Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:07 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden View Post
2)Do you watch The Daily Show too, Unreasoner?
Sure do. I wondered who would be the first to notice that.

On the topic at hand, I am still largely in agreement with ZS and Seeker, but I am incredibly hesitant to call the Tainting a unique event.

Perhaps it is my Leibniz worship (the best of all possible worlds, the Taint must serve some purpose), perhaps it is my interpretation of RJ's thoughts on the Greeks and linear time, and how an eternal struggle might be the only thing that can give life in circular time meaning. But I don't follow the idea that the Taint is unique.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:12 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Sure do. I wondered who would be the first to notice that.

On the topic at hand, I am still largely in agreement with ZS and Seeker, but I am incredibly hesitant to call the Tainting a unique event.

Perhaps it is my Leibniz worship (the best of all possible worlds, the Taint must serve some purpose), perhaps it is my interpretation of RJ's thoughts on the Greeks and linear time, and how an eternal struggle might be the only thing that can give life in circular time meaning. But I don't follow the idea that the Taint is unique.
I would say there are some parts of Seeker's thoughts I agree with and others I do not. The idea that it's a unique event is one of those that I don't agree with, though I can see how it could be a different kind of corruption (Saidar might end up tainted, or both halves, or the Ogier, etc). It is certainly a corruption, but the Wheel has demonstrated a deft ability to incorporate corruption into its designs.
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-08-2012, 04:40 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,864
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
Well, I'm not sure what Sanderson is talking about as there is no mention of these "ancient dark powers" in the book.
All right, now you're got me curious. What "ancient dark power" was Aginor talking about, if it was not something that is mentioned anywhere in the book, and is not related in any way to what Mordeth found?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEOTW, Chapter x, X
"He guided us." The hand that pointed to Mat was old and shriveled to scarcely human, lacking a fingernail and with knuckles gnarled like knots in a piece of rope. Mat took a step back, eyes widening. "An old thing, an old friend, an old enemy. But he is not the one we seek," the green-cloaked man finished. The other man stood as if he would never speak.
I wonder how you plan to explain this one away.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-08-2012, 09:43 AM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,682
fionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
I wonder how you plan to explain this one away.
Nice find.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Even more interestingly, that suggests that whatever the Mordeth-power is was around in the AOL. So what was it?
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-08-2012, 10:02 AM
Tomp's Avatar
Tomp Tomp is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,229
Tomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant futureTomp has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Even more interestingly, that suggests that whatever the Mordeth-power is was around in the AOL. So what was it?
Either that
or the dagger is older than SL and has a power of its own
or he's talking about Mat. He might be an old friend and an old enemy from AOL (reincarnated).
__________________
A good novel tells us the truth about its hero; but a bad novel tells us the truth about its author. (Chesterton)
What is worse? To be asked to die for your country; or be asked to kill for your country? (Bergström)
Never judge a book by its movie. (Eagan)
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. (Marx)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-08-2012, 11:08 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
Nice find.
I did wonder why you used three big quotes from BS where one from Aginor would do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Even more interestingly, that suggests that whatever the Mordeth-power is was around in the AOL. So what was it?
Interestingly? If you want to call it that. I'm not sure that anyone other than fionwe and Seeker were that hung up on the timing of the thing. Seeker because he thinks the Tainting was unique, and fionwe because he's fionwe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomp View Post
Either that
or the dagger is older than SL and has a power of its own
Why not both? iow, maybe the dagger is the source of the power. Or the ruby on its own? Mat had difficulty remembering the dagger, but the ruby was clear. And hey, if the ruby is the crystallized remains of some ancient world that tore itself apart with Masadar and suspicion, we have an incredibly bizarre potential source for the krypttonite component of the Superman myth.

Just to throw a bone to Seeker's position, it may be that this 'dark power' only goes so far as to produce Mashadar in Ages where the Source is tainted. Or to put it another way: in Ages where there is Need for it.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Seeker Seeker is offline
Hero: The Prophet of Moiraine
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,061
Seeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond reputeSeeker has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
All right, now you're got me curious. What "ancient dark power" was Aginor talking about, if it was not something that is mentioned anywhere in the book, and is not related in any way to what Mordeth found?

I wonder how you plan to explain this one away.
Well, that's a pretty obscure reference, Gonzo, and I think the subsequent discussion proves that most of us have no clue what Aginor was talking about.

Let's be clear.

I don't mean to disagree. My only point is that I can't really respond to the quote from Brandon because there's really nothing in the books to make it clear what he's talking about?

An ancient power?

Okay, what is it? How does it work?

You just know we aren't going to get those answers and without we have to go off what we do know.
__________________
He bought two fifths of lead-free gasoline.
Said the bottle is dusty, but my engine is clean.
He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
If his bride didn't like it, St. Peter wouldn't mind.

Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:18 PM
Whizbang Whizbang is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 21
Whizbang is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

The taint is only a skim of filth on top of the pure Saidin. Does the Wheel of Time have to reach through this filth the same way a man would? I don’t think so. Maybe the Wheel is actually on the other side, or deep down inside. Maybe it is between Saidar and Saidin. Who knows how the Saidin interacts with the Wheel? It is pretty apparent that the taint does not affect Saidin directly. It merely gets in the way when a man attempts to seize the source, and then between the weaves and reality (hence the darkening of the ways). The darkening of the Ways is unique for two reasons: It is a reality constructed by Saidin. It has been around for thousands of years, slowly absorbing the taint. Most weaves are over and done with looooong before the taint can affect the outcome.

Also, the wheel has been responding to the DO for quite some time (all of time, seemingly). Your argument that the DO is outside of reality and so the Wheel cannot account for it is a little… off, to me. The Creator made the Wheel of Time and the Pattern, presumably at the same time he caged the DO. He would have made the Wheel so that it could adapt to whatever the DO tries to do. There is evidence for this in the fact that Ta’avren are made/reincarnated simply to battle the DO. I would even go so far as to say that the Pattern IS the prison for the DO. The only way for the DO to be free is to destroy the Pattern. The hole in the DO’s prison is a hole in the Pattern. I dunno, maybe that is a stretch, since the DO and his minions are afraid to use Balefire, because of its effects on the Pattern. So, maybe that is going too far. Regardless, the Wheel seems able to adapt to the DO’s actions.

So, maybe the Pattern is tainted because Saidin is tainted, but this assumes that the Wheel of time interacts with Saidin the same way a man would. But the Wheel is not incapable of accounting for this taint.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-05-2012, 04:03 AM
Cabadrin Cabadrin is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 113
Cabadrin is a jewel in the roughCabadrin is a jewel in the roughCabadrin is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
TWOTWOT ch 1:
The only known forces outside the Wheel and the Pattern are the Creator, who shaped the Wheel, the One Power that drives it - as well as the plan for the Great Pattern - and the Dark One, who was imprisoned outside the pattern by the Creator at the moment of creation. No one inside and of the Pattern can destroy the Wheel or change the destiny of the Great Pattern. Even those who are ta'veren can only alter, but not completely change, the weave.
Interesting observation that the Ways have been affected because they use Saidin over a long time. I had been wondering if mayor constructs like the Choedan Kal would have to be made using purified Saidin, as in the Eye pool, but you are probably right, the Taint is not a problem here.

After the Bowl of the Winds used massive amounts of tainted Saidin together with Saidar female channelers became sick, probably because some Taint slipped into Saidar, but as far as we know only channelers were affected, there are no reports of mini-blights, for instance.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.