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  #121  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:35 PM
sleepinghour sleepinghour is offline
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It was corrected in the ebook edition of TGS, though as far as I could tell, there's still no explanation about what Aviendha did with Verin's ring and the angreal she got from Elayne in KoD.
Quote:
[Siuan] would have liked to have the original ring, but that was carefully kept by the Sitters.
—TGS ch 8

[Siuan] would have liked to have the original ring, but Elayne had taken that one with her.
—TGS ebook edition ch 8

Egwene clenched her teeth, thinking of Sheriam's final spilled confessions. The theft of the ter'angreal had been far from the most shocking tidbit she'd mentioned. Elayne would be livid; the original ring had been among those stolen, and Egwene doubted that Siuan's hidden copy would be useful as a template. It was already flawed; copies of it would likely be more imperfect.
—TGS ch 45

Egwene clenched her teeth, thinking of Sheriam's final spilled confessions. The theft of the ter'angreal had been far from the most shocking tidbit she’d mentioned. Elayne would be livid; she had made all of the copies that were stolen. While none of her copies worked as well as the original, they worked well enough. She would not be happy that they were in the hands of a Forsaken.
—TGS ebook edition ch 45
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  #122  
Old 12-15-2012, 10:49 PM
Lost One Lost One is offline
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Double sweet.. thanks for the corrections
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  #123  
Old 12-16-2012, 01:38 AM
Dom Dom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepinghour View Post
there's still no explanation about what Aviendha did with Verin's ring and the angreal she got from Elayne in KoD.

Brandon seems to have forgotten the angreal completely (or at least Aviendha forgot she had it. She could have used it in the TGS bubble of evil scene that strained her strength).

About the ring, well... Brandon obviously forgot she had it, but she didn't really have an opportunity to use it. She stays away from Egwene these days, and the dreamwalkers are with her, so she doesn't have to communicate with them.

It may or not play out later. With the errors, Brandon was made aware he had forgotten Aviendha had the ring, so he might use it in AMOL. Rather obviously Elayne isn't meant to make more copies, at least it wasn't in the plans - since Brandon got what he thought was the original ter'angreal lost and pointed it out.

RJ probably gave Aviendha the ring in part so Elayne couldn't make more copies (which is of some importance, since the BA/Mesaana stole most of those), and in part in case he needed Aviendha to communicate with Elayne, Egwene or the WO through TAR down the line. He may not have had more specific plans than this to use it, just kept his options open in case he needed such a communication, knowing Aviendha would be alone for a while and can't enter TAR on her own without a WO guiding her in, or a ter'angreal.

Bottomline: the Shadow now have a larger access to TAR than the AS/WO. In any important offensive in TAR in the LB, it's down now to a few ter'angreal and the natural dreamwalkers, and Perrin's army of wolves. At least until Aviendah returned, but since Brandon had the original lost originally, it probably means no more copies even though Aviendha now has the ring as she should all along have.

Last edited by Dom; 12-16-2012 at 01:40 AM.
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  #124  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:05 AM
sleepinghour sleepinghour is offline
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Well, Elayne did somehow manage to create perfect copies of the ring recently, according to ToM's corrections...
Quote:
"What if I offer to include the dream ter'angreal you were loaned?" Egwene asked.
Shielyn glanced at her hand where, in the real world, she would be holding the small plate that—with a channeled bit of Spirit—let a woman enter Tel'aran'rhiod. Egwene hadn't given them the ter'angreal that let one enter without needing to channel, of course. Those were more versatile, and therefore more powerful. Best to keep those a secret.
-ToM ch 36

"What if I offer to include the dream ter’angreal you were loaned?" Egwene asked.
Shielyn glanced at her hand where, in the real world, she would be holding the small plate that—with a channeled bit of Spirit—let a woman enter Tel’aran’rhiod. Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal Elayne had finally perfected that let one enter without needing to channel, of course. Those were more versatile, and therefore more powerful. Best to keep those a secret.
-ToM ebook ch 36

"It's black as a tomb up there," Nynaeve whispered. "I think they made it that way. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She's dead."
"Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter'angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend with."
-ToM ch 37

"It’s black as a tomb up there," Nynaeve whispered. "I think they made it that way. They shouldn’t be able to channel this well with those imperfect copies. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead."
"Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend with. Or since they're able to channel so strongly, perhaps not."
-ToM ebook ch 37
It doesn't say which dream ter'angreal she perfected, but it has to be the rings since the other two types (an iron disc and an amber plaque) both require a flow of Spirit to use, according to TSR. So...it's no use trying to make sense of anything dream ter'angreal-related; it's a complete mess at this point.

However, I'm still fond of the theory that RJ gave Verin's ring to Aviendha either to explain or cast some doubt on the veracity of the Rhuidean visions. Verin's ring didn't act up until Egwene went through the third arch which dealt with the future, so it would make sense if something similar happened with the ter'angreal in Rhuidean.
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  #125  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:09 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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About those Black Ajah and how many there were/how strongly they could channel:
Could pillow friends share such a ter'angreal? If they're both channeling into it when going to sleep, and it is touching both of them, then wouldn't they both enter TAR? That way, there could have been twice as many dark sisters in the fight as Egwene assumed she would be facing. Have them link, and each one that she actually sees is twice as dangerous as she expects.
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  #126  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:50 AM
sleepinghour sleepinghour is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Have them link, and each one that she actually sees is twice as dangerous as she expects.
The amount they should be able to channel with those ter'angreal is tiny enough that even if they linked, they would at best be able to match someone like Morgase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFoH
The True Source was a pale thing. She channeled a flame dancing in air above her hand. She might look solid—to herself, anyway—but she could see the river through that scrap of fire. She tied it off, and it faded away like mist as soon as the knot was done. How could she face Moghedien when the weakest novice in Salidar could match or better her strength?
[..]
Nynaeve thought of channeling. But what? A dagger that might not even penetrate the woman’s skin? Fire that would not singe her skirts? Moghedien knew how useless she was; she was not even looking at her.
A better solution would be to have the Black Ajah enter T'A'R in the flesh like Rahvin and Rand in TFoH, but that was clearly not what Brandon and Team Jordan intended since they later tried to patch up the holes. Others have suggested that Mesaana herself repaired the flawed ter'angreal or taught everyone to enter without any ter'angreal, but it's a bit too convenient for Mesaana to have that particular Talent, or that the Black Ajah would be able to master T'A'R so quickly when Elayne and Nynaeve still haven't. It also doesn't explain why Nynaeve was able to channel at full strength (she says she killed one of the Black Ajah with a blast of fire). If we take the corrections into account, she probably had one of Elayne's newly perfected copies.

The whole T'A'R fight reads like Brandon thinking, "wouldn't it be cool to have a Matrix-like fight here?" without really thinking it through.
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  #127  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:57 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Well, Mesaana was the most famous teacher of the entire AOL, wasn't she?

And Nynaeve was probably just a bit irritated. That tends to help her concentrate.

But apart from that, there were a few problematic details with it. On the other hand, it was something close to a Pattern Level Event, like Rand's fight with Ishamael in Falme.
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