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  #21  
Old 03-15-2014, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
This should have its own panel at Jordancon.
I think this year's schedule is already set. It wouldn't hurt to ask Jen, though, and if not this year, maybe next. I'd like to discuss it with Brandon; he has said in public that RJ didn't leave any answers, so he's just as much in the dark as we are. However, that might not be true about the creation of Slayer. He said he based Nakomi on something "deep in the notes", whatever that means, so we might be able to prod the question from that direction.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Res_Ipsa View Post
That is a very interesting. Assuming the last battle does not always happen during the same age, I would argue that it is the last incarnation as some souls may not necessarily be able to be spun out more than once. And then of course new heroes are added, such as Noal. I would think that if he were a more established Hero of the Horn, he would have appeared in his most notorious form.
Noal was Jain Farstrider, and it's pretty hard to get more notorious than that at the end of the Third Age without being the Dragon. On top of that, Noal appeared in the form that was notorious to the Hornsounder, who would presumably trump the importance of scholars who weren't there anyway.
Birgitte also appeared in the form in which she was well known at the time (including wearing her uniform), rather than in that of the woman who died a few centuries ago in the ToG and was almost entirely forgotten when Mat started asking questions.

On the matter of Luc:
If he were a HotH, and if his soul were in TAR, wouldn't he then know? Wouldn't he be aware of what and who he was? There is no indication of that at all, so I doubt he is one of the twins.
Plus: were Luc and Tigraine actually twins? They may have been, but I can't remember anything more than that they were siblings, just Elayne and Gawyn were sibling (but not twins).
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2014, 06:39 AM
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If he were a HotH, and if his soul were in TAR, wouldn't he then know?
It's a complicated question. Since we've only briefly had Luc's POV, we don't have much to go on, especially since the Luc we know via Slayer seems to be rather unlike the real Luc, whether it's because his thread is subordinate to Isam's, or because he was Turned (and then severed?), or what. But I would guess he is unaware of it, and has no idea where his powers came from aside from what the Dark One told him. Even Rand seems to only have a vague sense of what's going on with him.

Quote:
There is no indication of that at all, so I doubt he is one of the twins.
Calian and Shivan are not twins that we know of.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2014, 08:22 AM
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I tried to find what we actually have on Calian and Shivan, and now I've discovered that Microsoft has wrecked the Search function in the Explorer. That may be because I've switched off the Search Indexing, but that shouldn't make this kind of difference. Indexing should speed up searching, but without it a search would (should, at least) still be possible, just a few milliseconds slower. Anyways, this gives me something to do, doesn't it?
A bit off topic, I admit, but there you go.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2014, 09:53 AM
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More free advice: Calian and Shivan only appear in the Mat flashback, ACOS, Swovan Night.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2014, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I think this year's schedule is already set. It wouldn't hurt to ask Jen, though, and if not this year, maybe next. I'd like to discuss it with Brandon; he has said in public that RJ didn't leave any answers, so he's just as much in the dark as we are. However, that might not be true about the creation of Slayer. He said he based Nakomi on something "deep in the notes", whatever that means, so we might be able to prod the question from that direction.

There is a panel this year where we get to ask Brandon any WoT questions we want so that may be our best chance.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2014, 12:04 PM
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Maybe. You get better answers in a face-to-face discussion where you can ask a lot of follow-ups.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2014, 12:22 PM
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I'll try that if it doesn't get brought up during the panel in depth. It'll be my last Jordancon for at least 3 years so I need to get as much info as possible!
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Noal was Jain Farstrider, and it's pretty hard to get more notorious than that at the end of the Third Age without being the Dragon.
Yes, of course Noal was Farstrider, but Farstrider did not die and was rebirthed as Noal. He was made a fool of by Moridin and then left to pick up the pieces of his life. The question is is whether Noal was a new hero or an old one. If he was an old one, then it would support my idea that you take on your most recent form.


On top of that, Noal appeared in the form that was notorious to the Hornsounder, who would presumably trump the importance of scholars who weren't there anyway.[/QUOTE]

That is not necessarily true, it was the form he took as he died. He did not come back in all his glory as Farstrider, which suggest it is the last visage of the hero.

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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Birgitte also appeared in the form in which she was well known at the time (including wearing her uniform), rather than in that of the woman who died a few centuries ago in the ToG and was almost entirely forgotten when Mat started asking questions.
That does not necessarily support your view since we do not know when Birgitte was last alive and walking in the world, and therefore she could easily have been her last form.
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"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day."
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2014, 08:27 AM
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More free advice: Calian and Shivan only appear in the Mat flashback, ACOS, Swovan Night.

They weren't at Falme?
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  #31  
Old 03-16-2014, 08:38 AM
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They weren't at Falme?
Yes, but they weren't mentioned there. The flashback is to what Mat saw at Falme. Or what he remembered seeing there, at least, which, with his amnesia problem, is not necessarily the same thing.
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  #32  
Old 03-16-2014, 09:10 AM
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It's what he remembered when he recognized Birgitte for the first time.
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  #33  
Old 03-17-2014, 11:21 AM
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As for the Form HotH take, did not Rand mention that he saw many names for each hero?

Perhaps the forms change by the person viewing them. I think learning if Jain/Noel was new or old would be a perfect question for Brandon and the panel and might help answer the question.

Also, I wonder if they look similar, did we ever hear if Bridget looked similar in each of her lives? Perhaps that is why Rand saw the different names for the same face?

Interesting question.
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  #34  
Old 03-17-2014, 11:51 AM
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They may sort of look similar in various incarnations, but not to such an extend that they would be easy to recognise.
A good example of that is the trouble that Ishamael had with figuring out which of the three ta'veren was the man he had known in the AOL. If Rand had resembled LTT a lot more than Mat and Perrin did, then that would have been a rather big clue, I think.
From what I remember, Gaidal Cain also looked different in each incarnation, although he was always ugly.
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  #35  
Old 03-20-2014, 12:15 PM
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I asked Brandon at the signing last night two questions:

1. Is Noal a new hero? Yes. Brandon said that he disagreed with RJ's views that a hero once bound could not be unbound. Brandon thought that since the WoT is infinite, eventually everyone would be bound.

2. Does a hero take on their most notorious form or their more recent? Most Notorious. Brandon did not say this was confirmed from RJ but rather "how he viewed it."
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  #36  
Old 03-20-2014, 12:33 PM
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If a Hero takes on his "most notorious form" when he appears, then what happens when a Hero is totally forgotten by the time Horn is blown?
From what we know of it, the Horn was never blown in the Second Age, and neither in the Third Age until Falme. So there has been quite a lot of time and opportunity for heroes to be forgotten. Does that mean they are then unbound?
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  #37  
Old 03-20-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Res_Ipsa View Post
I asked Brandon at the signing last night two questions:

1. Is Noal a new hero? Yes. Brandon said that he disagreed with RJ's views that a hero once bound could not be unbound. Brandon thought that since the WoT is infinite, eventually everyone would be bound.
He and I had a conversation about that. I pointed out that Heroes could die a permanent death if killed in the afterlife, and he got really excited because that totally solved what he had seen as an inconsistency. He probably forgot about it immediately.
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  #38  
Old 03-20-2014, 01:19 PM
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If a Hero takes on his "most notorious form" when he appears, then what happens when a Hero is totally forgotten by the time Horn is blown?
From what we know of it, the Horn was never blown in the Second Age, and neither in the Third Age until Falme. So there has been quite a lot of time and opportunity for heroes to be forgotten. Does that mean they are then unbound?
The Horn doesn't have to be blown for the Heroes to be spun out into roles that will remain notorious when the Horn is blown. They are born whether or not it is blown.
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  #39  
Old 03-20-2014, 01:38 PM
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The Horn doesn't have to be blown for the Heroes to be spun out into roles that will remain notorious when the Horn is blown. They are born whether or not it is blown.
True, but in the Second Age there wasn't much to do that would gain one such notoriety, so even if they were spun out, that would not make a difference at all. In the Third Age that was different, obviously, but by then who could match the right Hero to the right story?
Just look how much uncertainty there is about the looks of people like Cleopatra and Jesus, who lived a mere 2,000 years ago. Then try matching up Charlemagne to a previous incarnation from, say, 10,000 years earlier.
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  #40  
Old 03-20-2014, 01:39 PM
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True, but in the Second Age there wasn't much to do that would gain one such notoriety
That's silly.
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