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  #61  
Old 03-07-2014, 02:52 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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So, when did Jon - who was clearly too petulant and short-sighted in the first book - suddenly gain a natural talent for leadership? How did his long history of standing around moping, lying to his companions, fucking a girl and then betraying her prepare him for the burdens of command? It's not a natural change because it's just another step in the formula.
Obviously, Jon's leadership talents are given to him by the Others. It is part of their plot to bring down the Wall. The fact that you can't explain it is logical, since the origin of his leadership lies in magic, which by definition* defies explanation.

* If it can be explained, it's technology, not magic.
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  #62  
Old 03-18-2014, 02:04 PM
Southpaw2012 Southpaw2012 is offline
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I enjoyed the series. I don't have a single idea how GRRM will finish the books before the show catches up though. I just read a few days ago that he plans on writing ANOTHER short story. Why the hell does he not just finish Winds of Winter and then A Dream of Spring before moving on to short stories? I understand that it is a long, vast series with a whole lot going on but come on.... He's a skilled enough writer and storyteller to move a little faster.

I do have a lot of the same complaints in regards to the series as the rest of you have shared. I don't give a shit about a single character in the series, for one. When Robb died, I was shocked but I didn't really care. Catelyn annoyed me and Robb was just, well, Robb. Didn't care. Same for Quentyn, Joffrey, Ned, Jon, etc etc. With The Wheel of Time, I loved these characters. Even the ones I found annoying at times (Elayne) I still cared for. Just not the same with ASoIaF.
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  #63  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:49 AM
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I agree 100%
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  #64  
Old 03-19-2014, 05:06 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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I just read a few days ago that he plans on writing ANOTHER short story. Why the hell does he not just finish Winds of Winter and then A Dream of Spring before moving on to short stories? I understand that it is a long, vast series with a whole lot going on but come on.... He's a skilled enough writer and storyteller to move a little faster.
I am not entirely sure, but I suspect that he simply does not know how he wants to end it, so he does not know what to aim for. He could write more filler books, but doing so would annoy even more of his readers.
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  #65  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:36 PM
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I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact that he really screwed up a lot writing books 4 and 5. GRRM originally planned it all as one book, and that it would take place five years after the events of book 3. And he started out writing it this way. But then, several years in, he decided that it would be best to just start the book right after Storm of Swords after all. So he scraped everything and started over. As a result of the back and forth on the five year thing, we're left with several characters (Bran, Sansa, Arya, etc.) having little to do it books 4 and 5, whereas people we never really cared about before (Brienne, Victarion, Arianne, Quentyn, Barristan, etc.) all come to the forefront. And on top of all this is the fact that he had to split the book into two (it would all originally have just been Book 4--at least, I think that was his intention). And of course there's the fact that he split the book in a weird way, by character instead of chronologically. Anyway, with all these changing plans and back and forths over what to do, it's kind of easy to see why it took GRRM something stupid like ELEVEN YEARS to write two books.

I hope--like really, really hope--that he's back on track and Winds of Winter is good. A lot of things were set up, at least, at the end of Book 4/5, so there should be plenty of things to do: Cersei's trial, battle of Winterfell, battle of Slaver's Bay, Euron attacking Highgarden, Arianne + Aegon attacking King's Landing possibly, Dany and her new Khalasar, etc. Plus whatever Jon, Bran, Sansa, and Arya get up to.
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  #66  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
I am not entirely sure, but I suspect that he simply does not know how he wants to end it, so he does not know what to aim for. He could write more filler books, but doing so would annoy even more of his readers.
I think it's more likely that he has a rough idea of the very end, but, with all the complicated plotting, no real idea of how to get there...
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  #67  
Old 03-19-2014, 09:29 PM
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In defence of Martin: writing a book is hard. It took me many years to get my first book published and I haven't written a single sentence for the second one. On the other hand, authors of fiction don't have to do the same amount of research, so it's not really comparable.
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  #68  
Old 03-20-2014, 03:57 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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In defence of Martin: writing a book is hard. It took me many years to get my first book published and I haven't written a single sentence for the second one. On the other hand, authors of fiction don't have to do the same amount of research, so it's not really comparable.
Yes, writing a book is hard. For most people, writing a good book is even harder. Doesn't change the fact that Martin doesn't write these final books, does it?
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  #69  
Old 03-20-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Yes, writing a book is hard. For most people, writing a good book is even harder. Doesn't change the fact that Martin doesn't write these final books, does it?
That's a matter of debate--in fact, the debate this thread is about--and, at any rate, I was addressing the common criticism that he writes slowly.
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  #70  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:55 AM
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That's a matter of debate--in fact, the debate this thread is about--and, at any rate, I was addressing the common criticism that he writes slowly.
I don't mind if he writes slowly.

What bothers me it that the series started out really strong but, in my opinion, the quality has gone down hill. Or dropped off a cliff.

People have labelled this sort of criticism at wheel of time before but, again in my opinion, it is not as bad of a drop off.

I used to hate book 9 and 10 but in my last read through found them to be entertaining although obviously not anywhere near as good as tFoH.

With Martin I found it almost impossible to complete my read through for aDWD and very nearly quit during that book.

I have never failed to complete a series once I began. This includes reading every Dragonlance literary abortion and every book by the "King of diminishing returns" raymond e feist but I am seriously tempted to let aSoIaF go. Although the tv show is ace.
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  #71  
Old 03-24-2014, 10:14 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Although the tv show is ace.
So far.

It is worrying if the television show is better than the book series it is based, though.
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  #72  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Daekyras View Post
I don't mind if he writes slowly.

What bothers me it that the series started out really strong but, in my opinion, the quality has gone down hill. Or dropped off a cliff.

People have labelled this sort of criticism at wheel of time before but, again in my opinion, it is not as bad of a drop off.

I used to hate book 9 and 10 but in my last read through found them to be entertaining although obviously not anywhere near as good as tFoH.

With Martin I found it almost impossible to complete my read through for aDWD and very nearly quit during that book.

I have never failed to complete a series once I began. This includes reading every Dragonlance literary abortion and every book by the "King of diminishing returns" raymond e feist but I am seriously tempted to let aSoIaF go. Although the tv show is ace.
I agree that aFfC and aDwD aren't great. One thing you could try, though, is to read them together. This list is probably the best order to read them in. It hardly makes the combined book an award winner, but I think they're better when read together than back to back. The only real problem this brings up is that some characters like Bran and Sansa, who only have 3 PoVs over both books, kind of have huge gaps between PoVs of hundreds of pages. But some of the "minor" stories (like the Iron Islanders and the Dornish) become more interesting when you read their whole story at once. And of course it's all pretty much in chronological order this way.
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