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  #81  
Old 08-12-2014, 01:34 AM
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Its a fairly obvious mistake by Team Jordan too...given that the Amyrlin's ships had no issue traveling through that spot but we later learn that its a common fording spot...thus, it wouldn't be navigable for river ships that size.

Oopsy.
Maybe it's like the Eye of the World and it moves around sometimes.
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  #82  
Old 08-12-2014, 02:28 AM
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Finished tGH. Yay.



When Ishamael appears in Rand's hotel room on Toman Head, is it real or a dream? The Dragon Banner remaining seemingly untouched makes it seem like a dream, but the chair is still burned from where Ishamael touched it. But if it was real, how did Ishamael get the Banner back in the saddlebag so quickly--literally in the blink of an eye?

I guess Min being forced to wear Seanchan clothes is foreshadowing of her eventual role with them in aMoL (sort of, I guess, maybe).

Min has a viewing that links Egwene with Galad. What is it? I'm probably forgetting something, but do they even really see each other again beyond a few times back in Tar Valon?

Min also sees a red-hot iron and an axe for Elayne, both apparently distant in the future. I guess the axe could be her confrontation with Perrin (though he doesn't have the axe anymore then, right?). Is the red-hot iron just the dildo ter'angreal she finds, or something else?

I'm probably over thinking this, but when Perrin, Mat, and Hurin are scouting the village where the WCs eventually show up, they leave heading west, implying that Ingtar's camp is west of that village. But when they get there, they say they followed Fain's trail almost all the way to Falme. And since Falme is the westernmost point of Toman Head, they would have had to ride by Ingtar's camp to get there.

Why does Verin tell Rand that the damane can sense his channeling? Is she just being super cautious incase the Seanchan have ter'angreal that can detect saidin, or does Verin know that channeling would attract Ishamael or something?

Are the Dragon soul and Ishamael soul just naturally good swordsmen? I know Rand practices a lot, but Lan says it would take 5 years at least to become a blademaster. Granted, Rand kind of cheats with the void, but he still seems better than he should. And Ishamael's a philosopher. Why would he know or care how to use a sword?

When trying to free Egwene, Nynaeve doesn't want to have Min play a sul'dam or damane because there's a slight chance someone might recognize her. But then she decides to use Seta, who has almost a 100% chance of being recognized.


Quote:
tGH 45
Bayle Domon watched the rising sun from the deck of his ship. The docks were already beginning to bustle, though the streets leading up from the harbor stood largely empty. A gull perched on a piling stared at him; gulls had pitiless eyes.
Are seagulls the DO's eyes?

Fain gets what he wants from all this--chaos--right? Why does he just flee Falme without any attempt at killing Rand whatsoever?

I always felt one of the funnier scenes in the series is when Mat casually tosses the Horn of Valere over a wall before climbing over after it. And Ingtar's stunned look.

Artur Hawkwing says, "We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon." Does this imply that the HotH will only follow the Dragon, even if a DF had blown the Horn? Or is it only because Rand is right there that they have to follow him?

A lot of stuff confuses me about the battle at Falme. It's like RJ asked a high Steven Erikson to write it for him. Is there any actual reason why blowing the Horn transports everyone around it into another plane of existence or...something? How do Rand and Ishamael appear in the sky? Are they really there, or is just a projection, or...is it all just "magic?"

Also, why are the Heroes tied to Rand's success or failure? If he tripped and fell right away, the HotH would have turned into incompetent morons that had their asses kicked by the Seanchan?

And...why does Ishamael have a sword fight with Rand? Why not just use the OP or TP?

Does the sword form "The Kingfisher Takes a Silverback" refer to a bird attacking a gorilla?

How does Ishamael know about Egwene and Nynaeve's importance to Rand? Just from spying on him enough?

When Ishamael stabs Rand in the side, is he actually trying to kill Rand? You'd think he could have done a better job if so...

Not that I doubt Min, but... how does she drag 250+ pounds of dead weight across a garden, up a set of stairs, down a hallway, across a bedroom, and onto a bed? And "with only a little hard breathing" too.

When Moiraine finally appears right before the credits roll, she says "I have been doing what I could, here on Toman Head and in Falme." She mentions trying to save the two AS damane, and I guess she found the two Seals. But what did she do on Toman Head?

Moiraine also says this is the first time the Black Ajah has revealed itself in 2000 years, apparently forgetting her own battle with the BA 20 years earlier.

Why is the word "kith" in the glossary? I mean, it's a real word...

I also skimmed a few pronunciations in the glossary. Did RJ just make these up as he went, with no rhyme or reason? Fain, Dain, and Taim are all pronounced completely differently. I know they're from different nations, but still...


Oh and one random thing I thought of. LTT is said to have killed "every living person who carried any of his blood, as well as everyone he loved." Did his weave search these people out all across the world to kill them? Or did they all happen to be at a barbecue at his house when he snapped and killed them all?
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  #83  
Old 08-12-2014, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
When Ishamael appears in Rand's hotel room on Toman Head, is it real or a dream?
I asked Brandon about that.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
I guess Min being forced to wear Seanchan clothes is foreshadowing of her eventual role with them in aMoL (sort of, I guess, maybe).
Dom and I discussed this before the book actually came out, when no one else had read it and we only had each other to discuss it with. It's actually one of a long string of possible foreshadowings, most of which were noticed by Dom. I think this is the only one I pointed out to him; she's even wearing the same color as she wore later (dark green).

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Min has a viewing that links Egwene with Galad. What is it? I'm probably forgetting something, but do they even really see each other again beyond a few times back in Tar Valon?
I am convinced that RJ originally (perhaps always) intended Egwene and Galad to marry after Gawyn died. There's a nice foreshadowing-that-wasn't-a-foreshadowing in TDR.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Why does Verin tell Rand that the damane can sense his channeling? Is she just being super cautious incase the Seanchan have ter'angreal that can detect saidin, or does Verin know that channeling would attract Ishamael or something?
She knew they couldn't sense him; RJ mentioned this in his TGH continuity notes. I don't recall RJ going into much detail, but I'm sure she considered Ishamael.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Are the Dragon soul and Ishamael soul just naturally good swordsmen? I know Rand practices a lot, but Lan says it would take 5 years at least to become a blademaster. Granted, Rand kind of cheats with the void, but he still seems better than he should. And Ishamael's a philosopher. Why would he know or care how to use a sword?
It was a sport in the Age of Legends. Ishamael technically used a staff. Rand has past life memories.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Artur Hawkwing says, "We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon." Does this imply that the HotH will only follow the Dragon, even if a DF had blown the Horn? Or is it only because Rand is right there that they have to follow him?
Not sure why the Team chose to contradict this in AMOL. It can't be blamed on unreliable POV; dead Hawkwing should know. (It was Hawkwing wasn't it?)

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
A lot of stuff confuses me about the battle at Falme. It's like RJ asked a high Steven Erikson to write it for him. Is there any actual reason why blowing the Horn transports everyone around it into another plane of existence or...something? How do Rand and Ishamael appear in the sky? Are they really there, or is just a projection, or...is it all just "magic?"
There are various theories about this, including a sort of superimposition of Tel'aran'rhiod over the real world.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Also, why are the Heroes tied to Rand's success or failure? If he tripped and fell right away, the HotH would have turned into incompetent morons that had their asses kicked by the Seanchan?
Probably. He's the Dragon; it's a way of symbolizing that they can't win if he fails.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
And...why does Ishamael have a sword fight with Rand? Why not just use the OP or TP?
Ishamael always drags it out with Rand because he would rather Rand serve the Dark One alive.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Does the sword form "The Kingfisher Takes a Silverback" refer to a bird attacking a gorilla?
Bird > fish.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
How does Ishamael know about Egwene and Nynaeve's importance to Rand? Just from spying on him enough?
He is a Dreamer. This was confirmed by Brandon etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rand View Post
When Moiraine finally appears right before the credits roll, she says "I have been doing what I could, here on Toman Head and in Falme." She mentions trying to save the two AS damane, and I guess she found the two Seals. But what did she do on Toman Head?
Nothing we find out about.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Moiraine also says this is the first time the Black Ajah has revealed itself in 2000 years, apparently forgetting her own battle with the BA 20 years earlier.
They didn't publicly reveal themselves then. Only when Liandrin and her 13 left the Tower and stole things did it become common knowledge that the Black Ajah was real, save 1) those not in the Tower and 2) the deniers.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Oh and one random thing I thought of. LTT is said to have killed "every living person who carried any of his blood, as well as everyone he loved." Did his weave search these people out all across the world to kill them? Or did they all happen to be at a barbecue at his house when he snapped and killed them all?
They were all together celebrating his victory at Shayol Ghul and probably intending to give him a homecoming congratulations party. News of the victory came well before it was clear that Lews and the 100 went mad.
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  #84  
Old 08-13-2014, 12:51 AM
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There's more affirmation in Niall's prologue that the Aiel have never left the Waste before, aside from the Aiel War. I guess no one realizes they raid Shienar regularly?

Niall knows the Sea Folk are all going crazy, but he doesn't have a clue why. Yet Anaiya knows they're looking for their Chosen One months earlier at the beginning of tGH. Niall should be better informed. Or he just doesn't care.

One random thing I just thought of...do the Randlanders think the world is flat? It's mentioned a couple times that they doubt there's anything across the Aryth Ocean, but if they know the world is round they'd know you'd at least hit all the stuff east of the Waste.

Why does Niall want Almoth Plain, which is in the middle of a bunch of wars, vs any other random plot of land? It looks like much more than 50% of Randland is unclaimed by any nation, yet Niall picks the one place that two other nations are already fighting over.

Not sure where the prologue falls in relation to the opening chapters on the timeline, but it's mentioned that Fain arrived in Amadicia a month before Byar. He must have used the Ways, I guess?

Also, FWIW, the opening 4, 5, 6 chapters or so are pretty boring. Even the obligatory Trolloc attack feels kind of half-hearted.

How does Moiraine get all these random women (Blue eyes and ears?) to come to her?

Ok, so there's a bunch of cool stuff in Perrin's dream in chapter 4. A lot of foreshadowing for him and Lanfear in aMoL.

Before that, though...what does Perrin's lion helmet (and all the armor) symbolize? It seems to just stand for the glory Lanfear wants him to take. If that's right, does the lion have nothing to do with Andor at all?

Also, what's the drink Ishamael and Lanfear keep offering Perrin? Ishamael tries to feed to Rand in tEotW too. Is it just a lame way to trick them into turning to the darkside? It's kind of cheesy when they're genuinely upset when no one drinks it.

Why do the Forsaken like to meet in the Ways in TAR? They wouldn't have been around when they were still free. Is it always Ishamael that does it? It's also weird that the TAR Ways seem to be at their peak of beauty in tEotW, but now Perrin finds them "dim," even for his eyes, though it's obviously not as dark as the actual Ways.




All right, so, the foreshadowy stuff:

1) There are several references to Perrin using "both hands" for something. First, Lanfear says, "A man should grasp his destiny with both hands." A few lines later Perrin thinks he could encircle Lanfear's waist with his hands. Both of which would seem to foreshadow Perrin ultimately using both hands to snap her neck.


2) It seems as though Lanfear uses compulsion on Perrin in the dream (Maybe, at least. It doesn't seem very strong). He starts agreeing with her about his thirst for glory until the wolves start babbling in his head:
Quote:
tDR 4
"Yes," he whispered. Inside him, startlement fought with acceptance. He had no use for glory. But when she said it, he wanted nothing else. "I mean..." The murmuring sound dug at his skull. "No!" It was gone, and for a moment, so was acceptance. Almost. He put a hand to his head, touched the golden helmet, took it off. "I...I don't think I want this. It is not mine."

3) In a brief fantasy about glory and the Horn, Perrin thinks this:
Quote:
tDR 4
"I don't," he said, though a piece of him shouted that he lied. The Horn of Valere. The Horn rang out, and the wild charge began. Death rode at his shoulder, and yet she waited ahead, too. His lover. His destroyer. "No! I am a blacksmith."
Assuming the "she" refers to Lanfear (and not death), it's a foreshadowing of aMoL and also reference to the Dark Prophecy from tGH.


4) Lanfear leaves by saying, "I will always be in your dreams." I guess this is foreshadowing, sort of, but my question is: is she always in Perrin's dreams? I forget, to they really even interact with each other again until aMoL? Are we to assume she's been watching him in TAR all that time? This may have been answered in aMoL, but if so I forgot.
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  #85  
Old 08-13-2014, 01:09 AM
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There's more affirmation in Niall's prologue that the Aiel have never left the Waste before, aside from the Aiel War. I guess no one realizes they raid Shienar regularly?
Only on the Eastern Marches, which is sort of brackish territory.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Why does Niall want Almoth Plain, which is in the middle of a bunch of wars, vs any other random plot of land? It looks like much more than 50% of Randland is unclaimed by any nation, yet Niall picks the one place that two other nations are already fighting over.
Doesn't he explain all that? He wants it because Arad Doman and Tarabon have been fighting over Almoth Plain since the fall of Almoth. He thinks he can claim it for the Whitecloaks and get both sides to back down.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
How does Moiraine get all these random women (Blue eyes and ears?) to come to her?
They're like cats. Or, she gives them coins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rand View Post
Before that, though...what does Perrin's lion helmet (and all the armor) symbolize? It seems to just stand for the glory Lanfear wants him to take. If that's right, does the lion have nothing to do with Andor at all?
The thought about the axe seems to suggest past life memories. I had a theory that he was the last king of Aldeshar in a past life, Ishara's maternal grandfather Joal Ramedar, but I can't really remember the main reasoning, aside from the lion helmet and the Rhea mythology. The elite fighters in Aldeshar's army were the Golden Lions. They were the last nation to fall to Hawkwing, and Ishara built Andor out of one of Hawkwing's provinces, using Caemlyn as her seat.

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Also, what's the drink Ishamael and Lanfear keep offering Perrin?
McDonald's coffee.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Why do the Forsaken like to meet in the Ways in TAR?
They don't. It's a construct of Tel'aran'rhiod, or rather its dark spaces.
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  #86  
Old 08-13-2014, 04:06 AM
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Why does Niall want Almoth Plain, which is in the middle of a bunch of wars, vs any other random plot of land? It looks like much more than 50% of Randland is unclaimed by any nation, yet Niall picks the one place that two other nations are already fighting over.
Almoth Plain has an advantage over, for instance, the Caralain Grass: it has an actual population. If the WC were to move to the GC, then they would have to do their own farming if they wanted to eat. On AP they could simply levy taxes and then, like, buy stuff.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:05 AM
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Almoth Plain has an advantage over, for instance, the Caralain Grass: it has an actual population. If the WC were to move to the GC, then they would have to do their own farming if they wanted to eat. On AP they could simply levy taxes and then, like, buy stuff.
To be fair, Niall's plan is actually a really good one. Almoth is a bucket waiting to be filled and his legion of Whitecloaks, if used correctly, would have turned it into a new nation run directly by them. Then he would have been able to easily squeeze Tarabon between Almoth and Amadicia until it fell to their influence too...and once all 3 of those were in place, Arad Doman would have had no choice but to negotiate/allow WC influence there too. If not for the whole Dragon Reborn/End of the World thing, he probably would have taken over 1/3 of Randland within a 10 year period.

He was a Great Captain for a reason...even if he was basically a Nazi.
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:51 AM
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How did all the Trollocs get from the Blight to the mountains? Just the Ways again?

After the Trolloc fight Rand admits he could sense the Shadowspawn long before they arrived but didn't realize what it was. Yet Moiraine and Lan only burst out of their house while the Trollocs are already in the camp. Is this because he's stronger in the OP that he can sense them so much sooner than Moiraine?

Perrin and Loial freak out when Moiraine says the Forsaken are probably free, even though they know perfectly well that they're free already from tEotW. Also, I guess it's just a classic example of no one telling anyone anything in WoT, but Min for some reason refuses to tell anyone Lanfear is around, aside from a vague, sort of useless warning to Perrin.

And FWIW their whole conversation about the Forsaken completely ignores Aginor and Balthamel. It's not as if they're dismissing them because they're already dead; Moiraine still talks about the "thirteen" Forsaken breaking free.

How does Moiraine catch the fish on their way into Ghealdan? Is there a OP fish-summoning weave?

I forgot, but is Sammael behind all the Gray Men and Darkhounds hunting Rand in this book?

Who's the guy with the funny clothes who gets skinned in Perrin's dream? If he's from Shara, is this in any way related to Demandred? Or his he just some random dude who wears weird clothes and got sucked into TAR?

After Perrin watches the guy die, he wanders into what looks to be a different building and sees Lanfear. The place is described like this:
Quote:
tDR 9
Colorful tapestries hung along the walls between tall golden stands holding dozens of candles that illuminated white floor tiles and a ceiling painted with fluffy clouds and fanciful birds in flight. Nothing moved but the flickering candle flames along the length of that hall, stretching as far as he could see, or in the pointed arches of white stone that occasionally broke the walls.

[...]

He came abreast of the first of the pointed white archways. It let into a huge room, apparently windowless, but furnished as ornately as any palace, the furniture all carved and gilded and inlaid with ivory. A woman stood in the middle of the room, frowning at a tattered manuscript lying open on a table. A black-haired, black-eyed, beautiful woman clothed in white and silver.
Any idea what this place is? The ceilings painted like clouds remind me of Ebou Dar, but I'm not sure if the rest of the description really matches. Also, what's Lanfear reading?

And a kind of random question: where do Randlanders get ivory from?
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:06 AM
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Fish: the Blues have a secret weave to summon insects; it could probably be adapted easily enough.

The skinned dude: probably someone who displeased Lanfear. She has used that method one other time that we know of, but no one else has.

Lanfear: probably reading prophecy.

Ivory: from Shara. Peddlers are allowed to cross the Waste, and the Cairhienin also were as recently as 20 years ago. The Sea Folk trade with Shara.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:35 AM
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On their way back to Tar Valon, Egwene notes that Hurin vehemently avoids Verin. Is this just because she's an AS, or can he smell that she's Black Ajah? Presumably she's done some violent things in order to make it appear she's a DF.

When they encounter Dain Bornhald, not only does Egwene fail to recognize his name (or rather, that he has the same last name as the WC who captured her), she and Nynaeve don't realize they actually met this guy back in Baerlon. I guess it was dark then, though...

I'm trying to picture RJ's conversation with the woman who draws the maps:
-Ellisa Mitchell: Is this map of Tar Valon good, Mr. Jordan?
-RJ: No, no, no. Make it look even more like a vagina.

I find it curious that Verin freaks out when the girls start babbling in front of Sheriam (even using all caps), but was at least comparatively more lenient when they were talking in front of the WCs and the TV guard. Since she knows Sheriam is Black, is she trying to keep info from her?

Who ordered the Gray Man to shoot Egwene? It seems like we're supposed to suspect Sheriam, especially since we know she's Black now. Maybe Liandrin ordered her try to kill the girls if/when they got back? In any event, who ordered Slayer? It seems as though he was there to prevent the Gray Man from killing the girls, not just to keep the GM from talking. Otherwise they'd have just sent Slayer alone to begin with.

Why does Mat's "Healing" chapter have the Heron Mark sword as the icon? Is it supposed to represent Manetheren in general?

How strong is Nynaeve? During the healing, she figures she might be able to channel roughly half of what 10 AS using a super strong sa'angreal can. Is this just a mistake? She shouldn't be anywhere near that strong.

After they heal Mat, Elayne asks Siuan what he was saying in the Old Tongue. Aren't nobles supposed to know the OT? I know most don't, really, but that's because they're lazy snobs. You'd think Elayne would have a better education than most "lordlings."

Right after Mat wakes up (and before the Aemon thing), he has a bunch of memories flood into him. Stuff like Ways, Portal Stones, Loial, Bayle, etc. One of them is "a well-dressed man who spoke to him like a father giving sage advice." Who is this? The only thing that comes to mind is Ishamael, I guess, though "well-dressed" is hardly the first thing I'd think of regarding him if I were Mat.

Mat also mentions a "beautiful woman" in this memory sequence thing. And later when Lanfear shows up he seems to recognize her. Where did he see her before? Just in his dreams? Or in the Portal Stone or something?

We find out that Siuan's uncle's name is Huan, which is also the name of Turak's servant guy. Obviously this means her uncle faked his own death in a burning building and joined the Seanchan. Siuan plotted with him for many years. In a daring plot, Siuan orchestrated the entire series of events that led from her being stilled to Elaida becoming Amyrlin, all so that the Seanchan could one day capture Elaida for a damane. Or something like that.

When she goes to pick up the info on the 13 BA sisters, Egwene appears to see Lanfear leaving Verin's room. What's the connection? Did Lanfear have Verin give the Dream ter'angreal to Egwene? If so, why?

Also, why doesn't Verin give Egwene the TAR instruction manual? Is she defying Lanfear's orders to teach Egwene about TAR or something?

When Verin randomly reads the Ishamael paper to Egwene, is she probably trying to tell Egwene that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon?

Is Anaiya especially gifted at Healing? Verin says she went to her after being wounded in TAR, and Lan apparently carried a half-dead Moiraine to her once.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:05 AM
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On their way back to Tar Valon, Egwene notes that Hurin vehemently avoids Verin. Is this just because she's an AS, or can he smell that she's Black Ajah? Presumably she's done some violent things in order to make it appear she's a DF.
Yes on both accounts most likely. The BA thing is the most likely reason...I mean, if you were him in that scenario, he has to know that she knows that he knows. His best bet is to just stay quiet and leave her alone in the hopes she lets him live.

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I find it curious that Verin freaks out when the girls start babbling in front of Sheriam (even using all caps), but was at least comparatively more lenient when they were talking in front of the WCs and the TV guard. Since she knows Sheriam is Black, is she trying to keep info from her?
Verin is playing both sides...she doesnt need a high-ranking BA to know everything she's up to.

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How strong is Nynaeve? During the healing, she figures she might be able to channel roughly half of what 10 AS using a super strong sa'angreal can. Is this just a mistake? She shouldn't be anywhere near that strong.
She is likely over-estimating her own abilities or exagerrating due to her inexperience.

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After they heal Mat, Elayne asks Siuan what he was saying in the Old Tongue. Aren't nobles supposed to know the OT? I know most don't, really, but that's because they're lazy snobs. You'd think Elayne would have a better education than most "lordlings."
Yes, they are but most dont know more than a few phrases to impress their lessers. Elayne was shown to be a fairly poor/lazy student overall on several ocasions so its not a huge surprise she didn't work too hard during her Old Tongue lessons. Put it along the same lines as rich people having to learn Latin in the early 20th/late 19th century. Most schools required it but most students didnt really know much Latin let alone spoke it. Hell, I took Latin for 5 years and I'd have a ton of trouble understanding more than bits and pieces if you were actually speaking it to me. I can still read it fairly well at least.

Quote:
Also, why doesn't Verin give Egwene the TAR instruction manual? Is she defying Lanfear's orders to teach Egwene about TAR or something?
Its fairly obvious that Verin is violating her orders by giving Egwene access to TAR and any instruction at all on it. Giving her the notes would have likely put her in fairly mortal danger as it would have been more evidence that Verin did it.

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When Verin randomly reads the Ishamael paper to Egwene, is she probably trying to tell Egwene that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon?
Yes...ashame Egwene is fairly dense and it takes her months to put it together.

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Is Anaiya especially gifted at Healing? Verin says she went to her after being wounded in TAR, and Lan apparently carried a half-dead Moiraine to her once.
It would seem she is and that she was fairly reliable to keep her mouth shut about what she was healing...unlike a random Yellow who might blab to everyone as to what Moiraine or Verin had been up to.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:54 PM
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I think RJ had not decided whether Sheriam was Black at that point. In later notes he has Light-minded explanations for why she did things, but then in the latest notes, he has Black-minded explanations, so he made that decision kind of at the last minute. I think Verin was concerned that the girls were getting above themselves after their adventure, and their babbling to Sheriam was evidence that they hadn't quite taken her admonitions to heart.

As for Hurin and Verin, I really doubt he smelled violence on her. He would be unlikely to keep that secret, and probably unlikely to travel with Verin at all. Would you travel with one of the Black Ajah? He would know, if he smelled violence on her. No, he was just nervous around Aes Sedai, particularly those interested his talent.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:00 PM
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He definitely would have smelled violence on her though as she had likely done literally awful things as a BA member. It makes more sense to think he'd basically keep his head down and not say anything. First of all, who'd believe him and do you think he'd be brave enough to cross an AS, black or not? Best to just pretend like you dont notice it and hope Verin doesnt kill you.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:22 PM
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He definitely would have smelled violence on her though as she had likely done literally awful things as a BA member.
But it fades as time goes on, even in the place where it was done. I'd say Verin has committed some violence at this point, but not very much, and not necessarily any time recently. She knew what Hurin could do; if she thought she had anything to worry about, she wouldn't have put herself in that position.

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It fades with time, but the worse the violence, the longer it lasts. Aiie, I can smell a battlefield ten years old, though the trails of the men who were there are gone. Up near the Blight, the trails of the Trollocs almost never fade. Not much to a Trolloc but killing and hurting. A fight in a tavern, though, with maybe a broken arm ... that smell's gone in hours......This is the worst ever, though. Murder smells bad, and the trail of a murderer stinks with it, but this ......There were men in it last night. Darkfriends, must be, but you can't tell a Darkfriend by smell. What I'll follow is the Trollocs, and the Halfmen. And something even worse.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:32 PM
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But it fades as time goes on, even in the place where it was done. I'd say Verin has committed some violence at this point, but not very much, and not necessarily any time recently. She knew what Hurin could do; if she thought she had anything to worry about, she wouldn't have put herself in that position.
As a high-ranking BA member, her hands are must be figuratively blood-soaked by the amount of violent acts she has committed.

Perhaps she channeled at him (even though she admits her crude compulsion doesnt work well on men as they are usually too suspicious) to keep him in line or perhaps he was smart enough to not question a AS? Maybe being a channeler effects sniffing? Or maybe he's run into quite a few AS with very bloody pasts so he doesnt necessasrily equate that with being a BA (which they deny exist to begin with).

I doubt that the average high-ranking BA often goes a long period without committing some sort of evil violent act.


PS: There is, of course, another fairly likely explanation: It was a simple whoops by RJ and his team that nobody really thought about until now.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:50 PM
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I doubt the PS, but I also doubt that Verin is quite so blood-soaked as all that. I'm sure she's done a lot of violence over the 70 years she's been with the Black, but there's nothing to say she's killed anyone recently.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:53 PM
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I doubt the PS, but I also doubt that Verin is quite so blood-soaked as all that. I'm sure she's done a lot of violence over the 70 years she's been with the Black, but there's nothing to say she's killed anyone recently.
It wouldn't exactly be the first continuity error in the early books...the whole "4 straight Amyrlins of the Blue Ajah" comes to mind from tEotW.

It does bring up a somewhat related question...how come Perrin, who was with Verin quite a bit in the Two Rivers, smell out what Verin was?

Not exactly the same thing as Sniffing but he's been able to smell out quite a bit of other things about people so why not that?

I also doubt that any BA in the inner circle like she was (or sheriam or Aviarin) isn't blood soaked. I highly doubt they get promoted based off anything else.
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Old 08-15-2014, 03:18 PM
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I guess it's just hard to say what Hurin can and can't smell. In the mirror world he says he could smell violence around everyone there (Rand, Loial, and Lanfear). Lanfear is obvious, and Rand killed 100,000 Trollocs in Tarwin's Gap, but I'm guessing Loial didn't do anything on that scale--yet Hurin can still smell his violent past.

On the other hand, Hurin apparently can't smell Egwene, who blew up roughly 200 Seanchan soldiers in Falme.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:19 PM
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I imagine that self-defense smells different than murder, and war is kind of somewhere in between. If different types of violence don't smell different, then any violence Hurin smelled on Verin could have been her killing Trollocs and Fades, which Aes Sedai supposedly do all the time along the Blight.

I don't deny continuity errors in WoT; I've pointed out many myself. I just doubt that RJ wouldn't have thought about Verin being Black and what that would mean for Hurin. Though of course it's possible that RJ hadn't decided on Verin until after TDR was published. She was one of the big current mysteries in his fandom at that time, but the Internet was not really a thing, and from what I have seen I think it's possible he didn't decide on Verin's backstory until around the time he was writing TSR, or maybe even LOC.

It's hard to tell because his notes are in files that are updated for new books, but not thoroughly updated for era consistency. You might have a file that has bits clearly written before TDR, but other bits clearly written while he was working on LOC. The gap doesn't get much wider than that, though; he did write all new files from time to time.

My personal suspicion, not based on anything in the notes, is that she was intended to be Black from the beginning, and perhaps the nuance only came later as fans totally fell in love with Verin and didn't want her to be evil.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:03 AM
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On the other hand, Hurin apparently can't smell Egwene, who blew up roughly 200 Seanchan soldiers in Falme.
But that was just Egwene being Egwene, wasn't it?

BTW, what evidence is there for Verin being a high ranking BA member?
That she's BA is clear (unless she lied about that) but I don't remember her being in the council, and I can't remember any references to other ranks in the BA either.
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