art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > A Memory of Light
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-22-2014, 03:28 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

But this is not about the CK, which had been a very secret project (the Forsaken knew the project existed, but not where in the world the work was done). It was about Callandor, which was a bog standard top-of-the-range sa'angreal, with a couple of flaws that only became public after Be'lal was killed.
__________________
I do not anticipate the invention of a working time machine in the foreseeable future.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-22-2014, 09:09 AM
Res_Ipsa's Avatar
Res_Ipsa Res_Ipsa is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,915
Res_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
But this is not about the CK, which had been a very secret project (the Forsaken knew the project existed, but not where in the world the work was done). It was about Callandor, which was a bog standard top-of-the-range sa'angreal, with a couple of flaws that only became public after Be'lal was killed.
I typed "CK" but meant Callandor. My argument still stands, Be'lal would seem the perfect candidate for the royal "we." He either created it or had a hand in creating it or his work was the inspiration for it.
__________________
More fools know Jak Fool than Jak Fool knows!

" 'Looks like the game can be won after all,' [Mat] said. 'Tell the foxes I'm mighty pleased with this key they gave me. Also, you can all go rot in a flaming pit of fire and ashes, you unwashed lumps on a pig's backside. Have a grand bloody day.' "

"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day."

Last edited by Res_Ipsa; 12-22-2014 at 09:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-22-2014, 10:05 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Or he may have been no more than a convenient power source for this. We know that making angreal and sa'angreal is draining on the people involved in it. We don't know whether making a sa'angreal takes more power than making an angreal, but that does seem a reasonable guess. So I would think that making something like Callandor (or the CK) would have taken a large circle with numerous strong AS in it. Be'lal and LTT were strong AS, and, as planners and organisers they did not often need that strength on the battlefield. So they were logical 'volunteers' for joining such sa'angreal making circles.

Now, we don't know when Be'lal openly went over to the Shadow. Nor do we know when Callandor was made. So there is some obvious uncertainty here as to whether or not those times overlap.
__________________
I do not anticipate the invention of a working time machine in the foreseeable future.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-24-2014, 12:04 AM
Res_Ipsa's Avatar
Res_Ipsa Res_Ipsa is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,915
Res_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Or he may have been no more than a convenient power source for this. We know that making angreal and sa'angreal is draining on the people involved in it. We don't know whether making a sa'angreal takes more power than making an angreal, but that does seem a reasonable guess. So I would think that making something like Callandor (or the CK) would have taken a large circle with numerous strong AS in it. Be'lal and LTT were strong AS, and, as planners and organisers they did not often need that strength on the battlefield. So they were logical 'volunteers' for joining such sa'angreal making circles.

Now, we don't know when Be'lal openly went over to the Shadow. Nor do we know when Callandor was made. So there is some obvious uncertainty here as to whether or not those times overlap.
That is getting afield of my point. Be'lal was probably not involved in any of it, but he seems the type that would claim involvement in any grand thing where no direct source exists to contradict him. Even if he was, he would seek to inflate his role where possible.
__________________
More fools know Jak Fool than Jak Fool knows!

" 'Looks like the game can be won after all,' [Mat] said. 'Tell the foxes I'm mighty pleased with this key they gave me. Also, you can all go rot in a flaming pit of fire and ashes, you unwashed lumps on a pig's backside. Have a grand bloody day.' "

"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day."
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-24-2014, 04:21 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I don't disagree with the last bit. However, I also think that if Callandor was made while Be'lal still was on the side of the Light, then it is quite believable that both he and LTT had been part of making it.

So the real question here is "when was Callandor made?"
When it comes to that, we do not have all that much evidence. We know that it was less than 80 years after the start of the Breaking. But that still leaves a period of more than a century where we have no clue when to place this event. Be'lal's statement gives some not very dependable extra information, and that's basically all we have.
__________________
I do not anticipate the invention of a working time machine in the foreseeable future.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-12-2015, 11:57 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 261
Great Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to all
Default No choice

Regarding why the Dark One let Rand near the Bore with Callandor:

The Last Battle MUST take place, and Rand used this to coerce the Dark One not to do the stalactite trick when he approached. However well prepared Rand came, the Dark One was going to let him into the Pit of Doom.

Even if the Dark One knows how Callandor can be used against him, it seems likely he underestimates Rand's ability to figure this out, especially given that the flaw requires Rand and two women to work together. Or, he also has a way of using it against Rand, which he considers more likely to pan out than Rand using it against him.

The Last Battle is the battle for Rand's soul, and the Dark One is likely to interpret bringing Callandor as a sign Rand is willing to use force, which ultimately gives the Dark One what he wants.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-13-2015, 08:08 PM
Res_Ipsa's Avatar
Res_Ipsa Res_Ipsa is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,915
Res_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant futureRes_Ipsa has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Lord of the Dark View Post
Regarding why the Dark One let Rand near the Bore with Callandor:

The Last Battle MUST take place, and Rand used this to coerce the Dark One not to do the stalactite trick when he approached. However well prepared Rand came, the Dark One was going to let him into the Pit of Doom.

Even if the Dark One knows how Callandor can be used against him, it seems likely he underestimates Rand's ability to figure this out, especially given that the flaw requires Rand and two women to work together. Or, he also has a way of using it against Rand, which he considers more likely to pan out than Rand using it against him.

The Last Battle is the battle for Rand's soul, and the Dark One is likely to interpret bringing Callandor as a sign Rand is willing to use force, which ultimately gives the Dark One what he wants.
I suppose the answer lies in what mythology RJ put the most into in the view of good and evil. Is the DO comparable to Satan where his powers are defined by what God gives him, or the DO more akin to the Asian views of good and evil, one to balance out the other. I think the latter is correct because of the symbol of the AS. Therefore, its quite possible the DO knew because he had to know.
__________________
More fools know Jak Fool than Jak Fool knows!

" 'Looks like the game can be won after all,' [Mat] said. 'Tell the foxes I'm mighty pleased with this key they gave me. Also, you can all go rot in a flaming pit of fire and ashes, you unwashed lumps on a pig's backside. Have a grand bloody day.' "

"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.