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  #21  
Old 09-02-2015, 10:54 PM
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I think we need to know more about cuendillar. For instance, why aren't we buried in it? Why couldn't you build a machine that exploits the nature of cuendillar and balefire to at least remove a problematic individual from the timeline after the fact? I could post the technical specs of such a computer (see my Non-WoT STEM thread, for the general idea). But, even if the totality of the effects of balefire are strongly local (so my time-regulation device is impossible, or at least impractical), action on even the distant past is possible, with a balefire-based computer. The actor may not remember the action after it's taken, but that doesn't stop him from taking it.
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  #22  
Old 09-03-2015, 03:20 AM
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Cockroaches eat cuendillar. That's why there were hardly any in the first books, but there appeared lots of them some time after Egwene started mass production.

And I don't really buy the "the Wheel will prevent time travel" argument. Even without time travel, the Wheel is weaving a many dimensional tapestry; there are at least 6 spatial dimensions (three for normal space, another one at least for *finn-space, for PS worlds and one for TAR), plus a time dimension. If the Wheel can weave in 7 dimensions anyway, why can't it weave in 8, or 9, or even more, just as well?

About the gholam's sensing of the Aviendha gateway:
It is not actually said in tPoD that the gholam sensed the gateway. It is only said that it could sense that the OP had been used. How sensitive is a gholam to that, though? Maybe what it sensed close by was the gateway, and what it sensed farther off was the use of the Bowl.
On the other hand, the Windfinders learned to Travel at least in part by watching what Aviendha did. So if her method involved time travel, then the same would be true for the Windfinders.
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  #23  
Old 09-03-2015, 05:34 AM
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I forgot another possible method: quantum teleportation.

The reason we cannot use it to move back in time is because we can't send information backwards (which you need before collapsing the entangled state). But even if time-regulation is impossible, sending bits back is easy. Of course, whether this constitutes true time travel is up for debate. I mean, the 'you' created in the past would retain all your memories and other properties, but you would probably be dead in a technical sense. The original, that is. I don't know what would happen with the threads.
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  #24  
Old 09-03-2015, 06:35 AM
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Maybe the quantum teleportation can be combined with balefire somehow?
That'd make an interesting research subject, though getting it financed might be difficult.
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  #25  
Old 09-03-2015, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Maybe the quantum teleportation can be combined with balefire somehow?
That'd make an interesting research subject, though getting it financed might be difficult.
This was exactly what I had in mind. Send the bits back in time with a balefire computer. Though I suppose a high-bandwidth Foretelling machine would work too.

The funding question raises an interesting paradox: If it is funded, you could in theory send someone back to stop the funding.

It may even be the case that (since the past section has already been woven) no one would notice or react to you. You may even find it hard to channel (if you are effectively threadless, how would you be connected to the Source?)
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  #26  
Old 09-03-2015, 07:31 AM
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You may even find it hard to channel (if you are effectively threadless, how would you be connected to the Source?)
That can obviously be solved if you just have a well-filling ter'angreal. I'm sure Elayne can make such a thing.
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  #27  
Old 09-03-2015, 08:32 AM
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It's been a while since I've read work on Time Travel and WoT, but this individual on Tor.com mentions that it is not possible to travel backwards in Time in the RW or "Main Reality" and I can't remember if we ever discounted the possibility entirely assuming the Wheel is intact. I haven't had time to think through the metaphysical mechanisms fully, but thought I'd ask while I think it through.
Page Frenzy. This was one of her pet theories if I recall.
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  #28  
Old 09-03-2015, 11:09 AM
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That can obviously be solved if you just have a well-filling ter'angreal. I'm sure Elayne can make such a thing.
My point is that if the Pattern is already woven, you will be so out of sync when you go back in time that you won't be able to affect anything. Maybe just going back would sever you, and if no one can see or hear or touch you (even soft things might be as immovable as a steel wall), no one will be able to Heal you. The Pattern would be fixed, and you would essentially just be an observer. Which would explain why we've never seen a time traveler. There could be thousands running around, cut loose from the Pattern. And it may be that after you die, you are Dead. Forever. You may even die fairly quickly, if even the movement of water is woven already. Even faster if air is already woven.
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  #29  
Old 09-03-2015, 11:28 AM
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Maybe all those "ghosts" that were seen before the Last Battle were accidental time travellers from far in the future?
It seems far fetched to me, but I can't quite exclude the possibility that they are from six point something Ages ahead instead of (as everyone assumed) from half an Age or so ago.
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  #30  
Old 09-03-2015, 03:11 PM
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Of course it is entirely possible that if you attempt to time travel, you end up as a voice in someone's head...
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  #31  
Old 09-03-2015, 06:14 PM
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Maybe all those "ghosts" that were seen before the Last Battle were accidental time travellers from far in the future?
It seems far fetched to me, but I can't quite exclude the possibility that they are from six point something Ages ahead instead of (as everyone assumed) from half an Age or so ago.
lol. Maybe they came to help.

It's worth noting that no time travel method yet discussed (that we know works, iow: no gateways, no time-regulating device) really seems to offer a way to change the past. Even quantum teleportation only seems to swap the true world for a mirror world, and the Wheel would (presumably) force it to re-occur. So, like the time travel in Harry Potter (you go back to preserve the timeline, not alter it). You'd get a chance to alter things, but only once, and it may be pre-determined.

But, an analogue using something that only predicts the future probabilisticaly to acquire information before its time (like Dreaming) to provide the bits for the quantum teleportation may still be possible. So, not quite time travel, but selecting how events unfold in advance.
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  #32  
Old 09-04-2015, 03:35 AM
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Maybe Nakomi was future-Aviendha?
That would explain why she didn't see herself in the visions she got in Rhuidean (she had left already to warn herself).
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  #33  
Old 09-04-2015, 06:01 PM
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Maybe Nakomi was future-Aviendha?
That would explain why she didn't see herself in the visions she got in Rhuidean (she had left already to warn herself).
What is the consensus on Nakomi?

Also I was going to mention Asmodean's horror at opening an exit gateway at the back of a Skimming barge. Normally the movement through the Skimming process only goes in one direction relative to the barge. Maybe this direction is the arrow of time? And maybe the consequences of time travel are as dire as I thought they could be.

Really, for pretty much all intents and purposes, time travel is probably possible. Just look at the Rhuidean columns, or the Portal Stone trip to Toman Head. Since Foretelling is possible, and other similar methods of prediction, what's to stop someone from building a ter'angreal that lets you live a virtual life in the projected future (in compressed time) from some point a few hours in the future. You'd wear something like the twisted ring around your neck that takes some kinds of input. You'd live in the projected future normally, and the ter'angreal would record your actions, and at any point you want to trigger a do-over, you could. You might even be able to 'save' your progress throughout, to avoid repeating tedious tasks (though the ability to acquire new information in otherwise idle time would be incredibly valuable). Essentially, you'd be able to see exactly how the future plays out, and how it responds to your choices. Once you find a satisfactory path forward, you lock it into the ter'angreal and wait for the start point of the recorded period to occur, at which point you leave the ter'angreal and have some sort of Compulsion put on you to ensure you follow the recorded path without deviation. And if the start time comes before you lock in a path, you will either be released free or Compelled to follow the active path, depending on the configuration.
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