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Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - Non Wot Discussion Boards > Archived: Non WoT Discussion 03/2012 - 10/2015
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  #41  
Old 08-01-2015, 12:14 PM
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Here's a taste of the effectiveness of these nebulous other opposition forces, that Turkey seems to prefer - this one trained by us in Turkey, called either Division 30, or maybe the New Syrian Force.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...eb9_story.html

Quote:
The commander of a U.S.-backed Syrian rebel group has been captured by al-Qaeda militants near the spot north of Aleppo where a new contingent of U.S.-trained Syrian opposition fighters entered the country earlier this month from Turkey, the group said Thursday.

...

But a U.S. official familiar with the training program, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the issue, said that the capture was “definitely a setback” for U.S. and Turkish plans to use Division 30 fighters to help direct airstrikes against Islamic State forces and establish a rebel-controlled safe zone in the area.

Details of the incident were scant and confusing. Officials have said that the U.S. trainees, dubbed the New Syrian Force, were drawn from and returned to Division 30. “We’ve had regular contact with him,” the official familiar with the program said of Hassan. “He’s certainly an ally.” But officials denied that Hassan himself was among those trained.

A U.S. military official said he did not know why Hassan had been captured. “Allegiances change by the hour sometimes,” he said of armed groups fighting in Syria.
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  #42  
Old 08-02-2015, 06:57 PM
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Rand al'Fain Rand al'Fain is offline
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Was only a matter of time before the Kurds would hit back at Turkey.

http://news.yahoo.com/2-soldiers-dea...42756590.html#
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  #43  
Old 08-02-2015, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
Was only a matter of time before the Kurds would hit back at Turkey.

http://news.yahoo.com/2-soldiers-dea...42756590.html#
If the PKK really is behind this one, it is a massive mistake on their part. Even the Iraqi Kurds, the only Kurdish force on friendly terms with Turkey, had condemned the Turks for the airstrikes in Northern Iraq due to all the civilian casualties. Far smarter to sit back and let the world be forced to condemn Turkey's actions. This, if it really was them, only serves to validate Turkey's claims. Either way, the only force that benefits from this is ISIS. All of Turkey's efforts have been aimed at the PKK and the YPG (the Syrian Kurds), and at trying to drive a wedge between those two groups and the Iraqi Kurds. Still unclear if they have attacked ISIS at all, certainly anything that they have done there seems like an afterthought and window-dressing by comparison. And I'll be blunt, this was probably the PKK, but I don't trust anything that the Turkish govt says. This tactic, suicide bombing, seems more in line with ISIS than the PKK, and this attack benefits only ISIS and Turkey. Not the PKK. A few years form now when an ISIS warlord calling himself caliph rules in Damascus, we should point to Turkey's entry into this struggle for why that became inevitable.
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  #44  
Old 08-03-2015, 04:10 AM
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In the 1990s the PKK had also carried out a string of suicide bombings, so it isn't really impossible they're behind this one as well.

It does seem quite clear that Turkey supports ISIS, just as Saudi Arabia supports Al Qaeda in Yemen. Neither bothers the USA, for some reason.
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2015, 07:39 PM
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Surprised it took this long for Erdogan and his propaganda machine to reach this feverish of a pitch, but this was bound to happen eventually...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34193733

Quote:
A crowd has attacked the headquarters of Turkey's pro-Kurdish HDP party, amid rising violence between Turkish forces and the militant Kurdish PKK group.
Pictures from the scene appeared to show the HDP building in the capital, Ankara, on fire.
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HDP (Peoples' Democratic Party) lawmaker Garo Paylan told Reuters news agency that hundreds of protesters had attacked the building in Ankara.
"Police are just watching, he said. "What's being broken there is our hope of living together."
HDP offices in at least six other Turkish cities were reported to have been attacked and images on social media appeared to show those in the southern resort city of Alanya also on fire.
In Istanbul, pro-government protesters again attacked the offices of the Hurriyet newspaper, smashing windows. An angry crowd had stormed the building on Sunday accusing the newspaper of misquoting President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in a TV interview.
I'm still not sure what the end game is here. If this was a hundred years ago, the massacres would have already begun. Hard to imagine that Erdogan wants that (it's clear that he wants to break the HDP's political strength in Turkey, break the PKK and YPG, in and out of Turkey, and so ensure that the call for an independent Kurdistan dies, but beyond that? What of all the Kurds living in Turkey? This hostility certainly will not make them more amenable to coexistence in Turkey.), but if he isn't careful the situation may continue to spiral out of hand. At present the mob is just doing what they want, but how long before someone does something truly stupid?
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  #46  
Old 09-09-2015, 04:42 AM
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In Istanbul, pro-government protesters again attacked the offices of the Hurriyet newspaper, smashing windows.
Nitpick aimed at the Beeb: since there is no Turkish government (they can't form one because Erdogan doesn't have an absolute majority, which is why they're going to have new elections), those protesters should be called something like "pro-former-government" or the like.

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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
What of all the Kurds living in Turkey?
I think that Erdogan believes the official Turkish propaganda: there are no Kurds in Turkey, they are all Turks instead. That is the whole problem they've had ever since the Ottoman Empire started breaking up in the first place.

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... but if he isn't careful the situation may continue to spiral out of hand.
Like making even more of those non-existent Kurds go to the polls and give their political party an even bigger position in parliament. That would be pretty embarrassing for Erdogan.

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At present the mob is just doing what they want, but how long before someone does something truly stupid?
Then the Kurdish regions would go up in flames, a military emergency would be declared there, this would make participating in the elections more difficult thus lowering turn out (can't vote if you are stopped at roadblocks by the police before you reach the polling place), and consequently the AK party could regain its majority.
What, precisely, do you think would be the downside for Erdogan in that?
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  #47  
Old 09-09-2015, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
I think that Erdogan believes the official Turkish propaganda: there are no Kurds in Turkey, they are all Turks instead. That is the whole problem they've had ever since the Ottoman Empire started breaking up in the first place.

Like making even more of those non-existent Kurds go to the polls and give their political party an even bigger position in parliament. That would be pretty embarrassing for Erdogan.
It seems difficult to get exact census figures, but there are somewhere between 12-20 million Kurds in Turkey. That is a massive range, and considering that the total population of Turkey is just shy of 78 million, their percent of the population is anywhere between 15-25%. The HDP got 13% in the last election, which was both their first time eclipsing the necessary threshold of 10% to get seats in the Turk parliament, and yet still presumably underperforming (whether they really are more than 13% of the voting-age populace even if more than 13% of the total populace is also a possibility that should be considered) their population percentage. In the lead-up to the last election there had been a long and successful ceasefire with the PKK. Likely the Kurds still voted as a block in that election. Certainly it is difficult to imagine them voting as anything but a united block this time, and as a very anti-AKP block. Hardly surprising consider the atrocious way they are being treated by Erdogan and his party. That's a lot of people to disenfranchise, especially not without it being incredibly obvious to international observers.

I find it disappointing, if not at all surprising, that the Republicans spend so much time talking about non-issues like the Iran deal (which was great for us and the world), and Benghazi (which was nothing), and seemingly not at all about real diplomatic disasters, like our handling of Turkey and the Kurds. I miss the days back when the Republicans actually seemed a viable alternative to , or at least not a complete foreign policy disaster in comparison to the Democrats.
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  #48  
Old 10-10-2015, 11:48 AM
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Seemed like it was just a matter of time until something truly horrific happened again here, and...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34495161

Quote:
Two explosions at a peace rally in the Turkish capital Ankara have killed at least 86 people and injured 186, according to officials.
TV footage showed scenes of panic and people lying on the ground covered in blood, amid protest banners.
The blasts took place near the city's central train station as people gathered for a march organised by leftist groups.
The attack is the deadliest of its kind in modern Turkish history.
Quote:
The rally was demanding an end to the violence between the Kurdish separatist PKK militants and the Turkish government, and had been due to start at 12:00 local time.
The pro-Kurdish HDP party was among those attending, and it said in a statement that it believes its members were the main target of the bombings.
The leader of the HDP has blamed the state for the attack, which he called "a huge massacre", and cancelled all election rallies.
The party has previously blamed the government for colluding in attacks on Kurdish activists, which the government denies.
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  #49  
Old 10-10-2015, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Seemed like it was just a matter of time until something truly horrific happened again here, and...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34495161
Putin wants to consolidate his political power: 'Hmm, maybe I should bomb some of my own people and blame Chechnya'

Erdogan loses an election: 'Hmm, maybe I should bomb some of my own people and blame ISIS'

Assad faces protests at home: 'Hmm, maybe I should bomb all of my own people, gas the survivors, and let the children starve to death while hoping that if they are lucky enough, they'll get gassed first if it means being able to smell bread once more'


These are the foundations of your peace in Syria.
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  #50  
Old 10-10-2015, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Putin wants to consolidate his political power: 'Hmm, maybe I should bomb some of my own people and blame Chechnya'

Erdogan loses an election: 'Hmm, maybe I should bomb some of my own people and blame ISIS'

Assad faces protests at home: 'Hmm, maybe I should bomb all of my own people, gas the survivors, and let the children starve to death while hoping that if they are lucky enough, they'll get gassed first if it means being able to smell bread once more'


These are the foundations of your peace in Syria.
Unless you want us to send in ground troops and take on not only Assad, but also Russia and Turkey, not sure what your point is.
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