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  #41  
Old 05-30-2016, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Khoram View Post
Sounds like the problems in Jurassic Park. They should have had better contingency plans.
Don't you mean sequals?
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  #42  
Old 05-30-2016, 01:35 PM
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Don't you mean sequals?
They lose power in the first one. Mag locks are useless against the raptors.
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  #43  
Old 05-30-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Khoram View Post
Sounds like the problems in Jurassic Park. They should have had better contingency plans.
Its one of those things where reality (ie money) comes into it. Mag lock doors are super reliable when they have power as opposed to crash bar doors (a door where you hit the opening "bar" to retract the locking rods...think your standard "push to exit" type of door). For a heavy usage door, those rods tend to break or jam up quite regularly so using Maglocks becomes much more practical. Also, its nearly impossible to force a mag-lock door as long as its got power...unless of course you are a super human...the lock is just too strong. The power issue is one of those "hey now, we didnt think you'd ever lose power" type of things you get when multiple people are in on the planning process unfortunately. A generator was initially shot down as "too expensive" but shockingly it looked much more reasonable when they were scrambling to arrange 24/7 guard service on a friday afternoon before a holiday (shockingly these sort of things always seem to break on a weekend or holiday). Thus, the money suddenly became available after that.

So...mag locks make more sense from a practical standpoint but you have to have those secondary security backups to make it practical from that standpoint.

Every security decision ultimately comes down to 2 factors:

1. Is it practical from a misison standpoint?
2. Can we afford it?

The latter has more impact than any other though.
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  #44  
Old 05-31-2016, 04:36 AM
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Every security decision ultimately comes down to 2 factors:

1. Is it practical from a misison standpoint?
2. Can we afford it?
You are forgetting a very important third factor:
3. Do we want to bother?

Very often, the ones most affected by security breaches are not the ones making the decisions about them. In such a case the ones deciding not to spend the money won't be expected to deal with the resulting problems, which makes that money a lot more important than some added security to them.

I'll admit that this third option usually does not make it onto official decision making lists, but that doesn't make it any less real.
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  #45  
Old 05-31-2016, 05:49 AM
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You are forgetting a very important third factor:
3. Do we want to bother?

Very often, the ones most affected by security breaches are not the ones making the decisions about them. In such a case the ones deciding not to spend the money won't be expected to deal with the resulting problems, which makes that money a lot more important than some added security to them.

I'll admit that this third option usually does not make it onto official decision making lists, but that doesn't make it any less real.
Also, the good old "how likely is it to happen" versus "how extensive would the damage be if it were to happen" If it's rather likely and has rather nasty consequences, you probably want to do something about it, and it's going to cost you. How much, depends on how much you want to mitigate. But if it has theoretically catastrophic consequences while the likelihood of it ever happening is infinitesimal, then you look at the costs of mitigation, which, in case of a catastrophy tend to be rather high... and usually you'll do nothing about it. Maybe write up a procedure or something, but no actual physical safety/security measures.
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  #46  
Old 05-31-2016, 07:39 AM
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Also, the good old "how likely is it to happen" versus "how extensive would the damage be if it were to happen" If it's rather likely and has rather nasty consequences, you probably want to do something about it, and it's going to cost you. How much, depends on how much you want to mitigate. But if it has theoretically catastrophic consequences while the likelihood of it ever happening is infinitesimal, then you look at the costs of mitigation, which, in case of a catastrophy tend to be rather high... and usually you'll do nothing about it. Maybe write up a procedure or something, but no actual physical safety/security measures.
Coupled with "if it goes wrong, there won't be any courts in which anyone could sue us anyway" this neatly explains the nuclear weapon situation, doesn't it?
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  #47  
Old 05-31-2016, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
You are forgetting a very important third factor:
3. Do we want to bother?

Very often, the ones most affected by security breaches are not the ones making the decisions about them. In such a case the ones deciding not to spend the money won't be expected to deal with the resulting problems, which makes that money a lot more important than some added security to them.

I'll admit that this third option usually does not make it onto official decision making lists, but that doesn't make it any less real.
That is quite true...and that's almost always the person/persons that hold the purse strings so to speak.

The hardest thing with security in general is that you have to prove that it matters...which can be difficult because good security means there is an absence of issues at which to point and say "see, this is why we need it". So, if you are too good (or just lucky), it starts to become a "why do we bother paying for this stuff when nothing ever happens". They ignore, of course, the concept of deterrence.
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  #48  
Old 05-31-2016, 12:11 PM
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That is quite true...and that's almost always the person/persons that hold the purse strings so to speak.

The hardest thing with security in general is that you have to prove that it matters...which can be difficult because good security means there is an absence of issues at which to point and say "see, this is why we need it". So, if you are too good (or just lucky), it starts to become a "why do we bother paying for this stuff when nothing ever happens". They ignore, of course, the concept of deterrence.
it's all fun and games until some moron with an iDiot decides to delete the shared Dropbox because "his laptop was being slow". true story.

and THAT's when you get to say "I told you so". I've gotten to say "I told you so" on about 4-8 different occasions over the last 6 months but of course now it's too late to change anything. Should've listened when I f'ing TOLD you so.
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  #49  
Old 05-31-2016, 01:27 PM
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it's all fun and games until some moron with an iDiot decides to delete the shared Dropbox because "his laptop was being slow". true story.

and THAT's when you get to say "I told you so". I've gotten to say "I told you so" on about 4-8 different occasions over the last 6 months but of course now it's too late to change anything. Should've listened when I f'ing TOLD you so.
ROFL...that's awesome. Just awesome.

Fun story on "safety": One time, I was at a OSHA instructors course. The best "story" we got on "idiots at my office" from another guy there was during fire extinguisher training. A guy was telling us about one of his students who swore up and down he knew how to use a fire extinguisher. So they get to the certification part of the test and the student supposedly picked up the extinguisher, pulled the pin and then tossed it in the fire. You know, because extinguishers are like big grenades that put out fires.

Now, I dont know how true that story is but the guy telling it swore up and down it was 100% true.

I could totally see someone being that stupid though.
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  #50  
Old 05-31-2016, 01:41 PM
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ROFL...that's awesome. Just awesome.

Fun story on "safety": One time, I was at a OSHA instructors course. The best "story" we got on "idiots at my office" from another guy there was during fire extinguisher training. A guy was telling us about one of his students who swore up and down he knew how to use a fire extinguisher. So they get to the certification part of the test and the student supposedly picked up the extinguisher, pulled the pin and then tossed it in the fire. You know, because extinguishers are like big grenades that put out fires.

Now, I dont know how true that story is but the guy telling it swore up and down it was 100% true.

I could totally see someone being that stupid though.
Seeing as we're going into crazy stories...

When I was in Trenton back in November, the pilot giving us the RJP told us a story about this particular fighter pilot, who, while sitting on the runway preparing to take off, got the hose connecting his oxygen supply to his mask tangled up in the ejection seat handle. He then proceeded to move his head, which caused the handle to be pulled, propelling him through his canopy. Apparently he's now a trainer in Portage-la-Prairie. XD

Subsequent attempts to replicate this feat came up empty.
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  #51  
Old 05-31-2016, 01:51 PM
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Seeing as we're going into crazy stories...

When I was in Trenton back in November, the pilot giving us the RJP told us a story about this particular fighter pilot, who, while sitting on the runway preparing to take off, got the hose connecting his oxygen supply to his mask tangled up in the ejection seat handle. He then proceeded to move his head, which caused the handle to be pulled, propelling him through his canopy. Apparently he's now a trainer in Portage-la-Prairie. XD

Subsequent attempts to replicate this feat came up empty.
So one time my buddy and I were talking about jump training to be Airborne. He was telling me about his first jump at Fort Benning (you do 5 jumps to qualify and get your jump wings). Anyway, he and his stick (think squad) were in the C-130 and all hooked up, ready to jump from the plane. He was at the back of the stick...last man out of the plane basically. Anyway, he was basically in full panic and would not jump out. So, the Jumpmaster (Instructor leading the jump) who was a huge black guy...think like 6'6", 250 pounds of pure muscle, looked right at him and says "Look private, if you don't jump out of this plane, I'm gonna shove my d!ck up your a$$" I was figured he was kidding at this point, but he looked at me straight in the eye and said "I shit you not, that's what the man said word for word". Finally after an awkward pause, I asked "Well, did you jump or what?"

His response? "Well, a little at first".
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  #52  
Old 05-31-2016, 01:58 PM
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So one time my buddy and I were talking about jump training to be Airborne. He was telling me about his first jump at Fort Benning (you do 5 jumps to qualify and get your jump wings). Anyway, he and his stick (think squad) were in the C-130 and all hooked up, ready to jump from the plane. He was at the back of the stick...last man out of the plane basically. Anyway, he was basically in full panic and would not jump out. So, the Jumpmaster (Instructor leading the jump) who was a huge black guy...think like 6'6", 250 pounds of pure muscle, looked right at him and says "Look private, if you don't jump out of this plane, I'm gonna shove my d!ck up your a$$" I was figured he was kidding at this point, but he looked at me straight in the eye and said "I shit you not, that's what the man said word for word". Finally after an awkward pause, I asked "Well, did you jump or what?"

His response? "Well, a little at first".
He got jerked around a bit. Then, once he got used to the feeling, it was all smooth sailing from there on out. XD
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  #53  
Old 06-01-2016, 02:05 AM
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ROFL...that's awesome. Just awesome.

Fun story on "safety": One time, I was at a OSHA instructors course. The best "story" we got on "idiots at my office" from another guy there was during fire extinguisher training. A guy was telling us about one of his students who swore up and down he knew how to use a fire extinguisher. So they get to the certification part of the test and the student supposedly picked up the extinguisher, pulled the pin and then tossed it in the fire. You know, because extinguishers are like big grenades that put out fires.

Now, I dont know how true that story is but the guy telling it swore up and down it was 100% true.

I could totally see someone being that stupid though.
I've heard a VERY similar one, also from a fire awareness trainer. Supposedly it happened at another warehouse of my then employer: There was a fire and one of the warehouse workers thought he'd help; so he went and got the fire extinguisher and threw it in the fire.


The best one that happened somewhat recently - the kind of stuff you think only happens in cartoons, really. So, this guy, very experienced, team leader that day, he was fastening an extra rope (I say rope, I mean a rope made out of strong enough stuff to lift about 900 tons of steel) for some lifting activities. Now, since the thing he was fastening was quite... bulky, he decided to throw the rope over rather than use additional guiding ropes to get it over. This is actually quite common practice, the rope does need an extra weight on one end so it flies well enough; so common practice is to make a knot in the end. But instead of a knot, he thought he'd be quick and put the shackle on the rope already. Threw it up, it didn't reach the top, bounced right back and hit the guy on the head. While he was looking up at it. Helmet on and everything, but he got hit under the helmet because of the looking up. Thankfully there was no serious injury, just a few stiches.
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:20 PM
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That item about the nuclear security rang a bell. Wanna get really scared?

http://www.cracked.com/personal-expe...-teenager.html
and
http://www.cracked.com/personal-expe...missileer.html
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:35 AM
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That item about the nuclear security rang a bell. Wanna get really scared?

http://www.cracked.com/personal-expe...-teenager.html
and
http://www.cracked.com/personal-expe...missileer.html
Those are great. just... so depressingly typical.
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