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  #221  
Old 11-08-2016, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
MSNBC sounds more optimistic than Fox. A lot of skepticism over here...
Do you mean more pessimistic? One doesn't speak of something as optimism while freaking the fu@k out. It should be noted global stock markets are also freaking out. They were all expecting Hillary to win in a landslide, and now are terrified of another repeat of England's insane Brexit vote.

They still haven't called Virginia, NC, Florida or Michigan for Trump, but it looks like all four are all but inevitable. Virginia especially is unexpected, even more so than Michigan. I remember being shocked and dismayed back in 2000, wondering how the country could be so stupid. Now I'm just disgusted.
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  #222  
Old 11-08-2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Do you mean more pessimistic? One doesn't speak of something as optimism while freaking the fu@k out. It should be noted global stock markets are also freaking out. They were all expecting Hillary to win in a landslide, and now are terrified of another repeat of England's insane Brexit vote.

They still haven't called Virginia, NC, Florida or Michigan for Trump, but it looks like all four are all but inevitable. Virginia especially is unexpected, even more so than Michigan. I remember being shocked and dismayed back in 2000, wondering how the country could be so stupid. Now I'm just disgusted.
VA breaks left hard late in the counting. It will be blue. DC and surrounding counties take a while and are way blue.

Not sure what's going on in Michigan.
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  #223  
Old 11-08-2016, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Do you mean more pessimistic? One doesn't speak of something as optimism while freaking the fu@k out. It should be noted global stock markets are also freaking out. They were all expecting Hillary to win in a landslide, and now are terrified of another repeat of England's insane Brexit vote.

They still haven't called Virginia, NC, Florida or Michigan for Trump, but it looks like all four are all but inevitable. Virginia especially is unexpected, even more so than Michigan. I remember being shocked and dismayed back in 2000, wondering how the country could be so stupid. Now I'm just disgusted.
I meant optimism as in confident that Trump will pull it off. If any other Republican was running, it would've been called already.

I too am shocked by Virginia. Didn't Clinton have a double digit lead in the polls as late as Sunday?
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  #224  
Old 11-08-2016, 09:04 PM
Southpaw2012 Southpaw2012 is offline
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If you loved Obama's use of executive power, you will surely love President Trump...
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  #225  
Old 11-08-2016, 09:20 PM
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VA breaks left hard late in the counting. It will be blue. DC and surrounding counties take a while and are way blue.

Not sure what's going on in Michigan.
I'm originally form Michigan, so I can explain that one. I'm from Oakland County (the wealthy Detroit suburbs). The dems win Michigan because of Wayne County (Detroit), Oakland, Washtenaw (Ann Arbor), and Macomb (the poorer suburbs). The rest of the state is Republican. When the Republicans win they take Macomb or Oakland. Oakland, being more affluent, and more college educated, seems to be staying blue this time, but Macomb and the sticks are going far more red than usual. The same issue seems at play in Virginia. Looks like the DC suburbs might be just enough to squeak out a victory for Hillary in VA, but maybe not in Michigan. It probably also doesn't help that Michigan has a small Hispanic population, and not much of an African American population (basically just Detroit).

They just called Ohio for Trump...
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  #226  
Old 11-08-2016, 09:29 PM
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Virginia for Hillary. That's one mortal bullet dodged...
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  #227  
Old 11-08-2016, 09:47 PM
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Fox just called North Carolina and is about to call Florida.
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  #228  
Old 11-08-2016, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Fox just called North Carolina and is about to call Florida.
Interesting. Neither MSNBC or CNN have called either of those yet. But both, and New Hampshire, are all looking bad. The next big calls though are Michigan, Nevada, and New Hampshire. Michigan especially. Like Virginia, losing Michigan is essentially game over. Wisconsin is also looking bad.

It looks like Trump is going to be president, he'll have a Republican House and Senate (whether he can work with them is another question), and a soon Republican dominated Supreme Court. I think Roe is toast. As is the ACA. Maybe gay marriage. Forget about making more pragmatic drug laws. Forget about doing anything to protect the environment. Forget about trying to fight govt corruption, as any chance of getting rid of Citizens United will be gone as well. The economy will also tank. The DOW is already freaking out.

MSNBC just awarded NC to Trump. Even if Hillary holds Michigan, Wisconsin and New Hampshire are becoming massive problems. The polls were clearly garbage.

Last edited by Kimon; 11-08-2016 at 10:10 PM.
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  #229  
Old 11-08-2016, 10:07 PM
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Interesting. Neither MSNBC or CNN have called either of those yet. But both, and New Hampshire, are all looking bad. The next big calls though are Michigan, Nevada, and New Hampshire. Michigan especially. Like Virginia, losing Michigan is essentially game over. Wisconsin is also looking bad.

It looks like Trump is going to be president, he'll have a Republican House and Senate (whether he can work with them is another question), and a soon Republican dominated Supreme Court. I think Roe is toast. As is the ACA. Maybe gay marriage. Forget about making more pragmatic drug laws. Forget about doing anything to protect the environment. Forget about trying to fight govt corruption, as any chance of getting rid of Citizens United will be gone as well. The economy will also tank. The DOW is already freaking out.

MSNBC just awarded NC to Trump.

Here's a refresher about one of the most misunderstood Supreme Court cases in history.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/22076597/
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  #230  
Old 11-08-2016, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Here's a refresher about one of the most misunderstood Supreme Court cases in history.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/22076597/
Lobbying more than anything is what is wrong with our system. And Citizens United removes all fetters on money in the system. Trump in a way demonstrates the limits of money, as he spent nowhere near as much as Hillary, but lobbying is still just an institutionalized and legalized euphemism for bribery. It is a cancer. Money isn't free speech, it's shouting to drown out all the other voices.

This election also shows the importance of charisma for anyone who doubted its significance. I hope that all this means is the Supreme Court going to hell, but Trump reminds me far too much of Putin and Erdogan. I'm worried about him doing far more than just use the court to take away choice and gay rights.

They've started talking about the margins that Johnson has in all these states on MSNBC. Just saying...

Last edited by Kimon; 11-08-2016 at 10:25 PM.
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  #231  
Old 11-08-2016, 10:38 PM
Southpaw2012 Southpaw2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Lobbying more than anything is what is wrong with our system. And Citizens United removes all fetters on money in the system. Trump in a way demonstrates the limits of money, as he spent nowhere near as much as Hillary, but lobbying is still just an institutionalized and legalized euphemism for bribery. It is a cancer. Money isn't free speech, it's shouting to drown out all the other voices.

This election also shows the importance of charisma for anyone who doubted its significance. I hope that all this means is the Supreme Court going to hell, but Trump reminds me far too much of Putin and Erdogan. I'm worried about him doing far more than just use the court to take away choice and gay rights.

They've started talking about the margins that Johnson has in all these states on MSNBC. Just saying...
Do you believe in the government having the power to ban books? During oral arguments, Solicitor General Malcolm Stewart claimed the government had the power to ban books if the book(s) advocated against a candidate and was published by a corporation. That led up to Citizens United. So you agree with that? And you should read that article again. Here's another.

https://www.cato.org/publications/co...-2012-campaign

Yes, Trump is scary, but Hillary is just as scary. She's corrupt and power hungry. We know what to expect from her because she's been crooked for the past 25 years. It's not just her, but the DOJ and State Department in general. I'm willing to give Trump a chance. If he gets a strong cabinet around him, and he listens, it will be okay.
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  #232  
Old 11-08-2016, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Do you believe in the government having the power to ban books? During oral arguments, Solicitor General Malcolm Stewart claimed the government had the power to ban books if the book(s) advocated against a candidate and was published by a corporation. That led up to Citizens United. So you agree with that? And you should read that article again. Here's another.
This isn't the issue, however, with the actual ruling.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...oney-unlimited

I'll provide the main points:

Quote:
When Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission was first argued before the Supreme Court, on March 24, 2009, it seemed like a case of modest importance. The issue before the Justices was a narrow one. The McCain-Feingold campaign-finance law prohibited corporations from running television commercials for or against Presidential candidates for thirty days before primaries.
Quote:
Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., summoned Theodore B. Olson, the lawyer for Citizens United, to the podium. Roberts’s voice bears a flat-vowelled trace of his origins, in Indiana. Unlike his predecessor, William Rehnquist, Roberts rarely shows irritation or frustration on the bench. A well-mannered Midwesterner, he invariably lets one of his colleagues ask the first questions.

That day, it was David Souter, who was just a few weeks away from announcing his departure from the Court. In keeping with his distaste for Washington, Souter seemed almost to cultivate his New Hampshire accent during his two decades on the Court. In response to Souter’s questions, Olson made a key point about how he thought the case should be resolved. In his view, the prohibitions in McCain-Feingold applied only to television commercials, not to ninety-minute documentaries. “This sort of communication was not something that Congress intended to prohibit,” Olson said. This view made the case even more straightforward. Olson’s argument indicated that there was no need for the Court to declare any part of the law unconstitutional, or even to address the First Amendment implications of the case. Olson simply sought a judgment that McCain-Feingold did not apply to documentaries shown through video on demand.
Quote:
Then Antonin Scalia spoke up.
Quote:
He had long detested campaign-spending restrictions, frequently voting to invalidate such statutes as violations of the First Amendment. For this reason, it seemed, Scalia was disappointed by the limited nature of Olson’s claim.

“So you’re making a statutory argument now?” Scalia said.

“I’m making a—” Olson began.

“You’re saying this isn’t covered by it,” Scalia continued.

That’s right, Olson responded. All he was asking for was a ruling that the law did not prohibit this particular documentary by this nonprofit corporation during those thirty days. If the Justices had resolved the case as Olson had suggested, today Citizens United might well be forgotten—a narrow ruling on a remote aspect of campaign-finance law.
Quote:
Chief Justice Roberts assigned the opinion to himself.
Quote:
Roberts did not explicitly call for overturning McCain-Feingold, but he left little doubt where the Court was heading. Referring to the McConnell case, the 2003 decision upholding the law, Roberts wrote, “We have no occasion to revisit that determination today.”

“Today.” To those who know the language of the Court, the Chief Justice was all but announcing that five Justices would soon declare the McCain-Feingold law unconstitutional.
Quote:
Through artful questioning, Alito, Kennedy, and Roberts had turned a fairly obscure case about campaign-finance reform into a battle over government censorship. The trio made Stewart—and thus the government—take an absurd position: that the government might have the right to criminalize the publication of a five-hundred-page book because of one line at the end. Still, the Justices’ questioning raised important issues. Based on the theory underlying McCain-Feingold, could Congress pass any law to ban a book? And was Stewart right to acknowledge that it did?

Stewart was wrong. Congress could not ban a book. McCain-Feingold was based on the pervasive influence of television advertising on electoral politics, the idea that commercials are somehow unavoidable in contemporary American life. The influence of books operates in a completely different way. Individuals have to make an affirmative choice to acquire and read a book. Congress would have no reason, and no justification, to ban a book under the First Amendment.
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The new majority opinion transformed Citizens United into a vehicle for rewriting decades of constitutional law in a case where the lawyer had not even raised those issues.
Quote:
As the senior Justice in the minority, John Paul Stevens assigned the main dissent to Souter, who was working on the opinion when he announced his departure, on April 30th. Souter wrote a dissent that aired some of the Court’s dirty laundry. By definition, dissents challenge the legal conclusions of the majority, but Souter accused the Chief Justice of violating the Court’s own procedures to engineer the result he wanted.
Quote:
But Kennedy was extremely receptive to arguments that the government had unduly restricted freedom of speech—especially in the area of campaign finance.
Quote:
So McCain-Feingold, and two Supreme Court precedents, had to be mostly overruled. The Constitution required that all corporations, for-profit and nonprofit alike, be allowed to spend as much as they wanted, anytime they wanted, in support of the candidates of their choosing.
Quote:
Stevens was just warming up. His dissent was ninety pages, the longest of his career. He questioned every premise of Kennedy’s opinion, starting with its contempt for stare decisis, the rule of precedent. He went on to refute Kennedy’s repeated invocations of “censorship” and the “banning” of free speech. The case was merely about corporate-funded commercials shortly before elections. Corporations could run as many commercials as they liked during other periods, and employees of the corporations (by forming a political-action committee) could run ads at any time.

Stevens was especially offended by Kennedy’s blithe assertion that corporations and human beings had identical rights under the First Amendment.
Quote:
In any event, the implications of Citizens United were quickly apparent. In March, 2010, the D.C. Circuit ruled that individuals could make unlimited contributions to so-called Super pacs, which supported individual candidates. This opened the door for Presidential campaigns in 2012 that were essentially underwritten by single individuals.
I apologize for the length of this post, but I needed the distraction, and I really despise Citizens United.
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  #233  
Old 11-08-2016, 11:24 PM
Southpaw2012 Southpaw2012 is offline
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Citizens United didn't touch laws regarding individual campaign contributions. That being said, you're against that? If I remember correctly, people spend more on Halloween candy than on political candidates in an election season.
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  #234  
Old 11-08-2016, 11:26 PM
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Citizens United didn't touch laws regarding individual campaign contributions. That being said, you're against that? If I remember correctly, people spend more on Halloween candy than on political candidates in an election season.
Look at that last quoted section that I attached above. Here it is again:

Quote:
In any event, the implications of Citizens United were quickly apparent. In March, 2010, the D.C. Circuit ruled that individuals could make unlimited contributions to so-called Super pacs, which supported individual candidates. This opened the door for Presidential campaigns in 2012 that were essentially underwritten by single individuals.
This is the problem.

Returning to the actual election, Pennsylvania even looks like it's going to go red. As for the futures markets, the Dow and Nasdaq Futures are both in panic. The Asian markets, being open, are also not taking tonight well.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dow...oil-2016-11-08

People get that Brexit was stupid, don't they? I would have hoped that was obvious, but then we had so many voting for Bernie and Trump.

Last edited by Kimon; 11-08-2016 at 11:31 PM.
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  #235  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:40 AM
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Do you believe in the government having the power to ban books?
Suppose I wrote a book specifying precisely how one could build a nuclear weapon in one's backyard, or at least how another government (or similar) could do so, would that be banned in the USA, or would it be published there? Suppose I wrote a book detailing how to brew Crystal Meth and a couple of other drugs, would that be banned or would it be allowed?

Do you truly believe that books such as those would not be banned? Yet, if they would be banned, then you admit that your government already has the power to ban books.
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  #236  
Old 11-09-2016, 01:53 PM
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This year was, overall, going quite well.
Dragon Ball Super introduces the multiverse and brings back Future Trunks.

CW DC Shows are entertaining.

Young Justice just recently confirmed to return for Season 3.

And hopefully the last ankle surgery I had did the job.

Then Trump is elected, my ankle still hurts, and if Obamacare is repealed, I may not have insurance anymore. Only reason I got any, was because of the law saying I can't be turned down for pre-existing health issues (8 separate surgeries on knees and ankle combined in last 10 years).

My "votes" in state meant didly crap. Even county wise.
And people tell me "oh, you should vote! It could make a difference!"
Nope. No where close. I voted against Trump, my state went 70 f###ing % for him.

I don't have much faith, or patience, left for so many that put in such an unqualified sack of human excrement as President of the United States. Some fools even try and compare him to, say, Teddy Roosevelt. Who would have been personally disgusted with Trump, and punched the Oompa Loompa in the face.
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  #237  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:49 PM
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I can relate - on a personal level 2016 was really good: Dai and I welcomed our own little minion, I got rid of my burnout AND when I return to work in two weeks time, I'll do so in a new and better function.

On the down side: 2016 was the year of Brexit, Trump, the continuing refugee crisis, Zika and accelerating global warming...
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