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  #61  
Old 10-07-2016, 08:06 AM
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Nazbaque Nazbaque is offline
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
How to define a false Dragon is quite simple:
Someone who claims to be the Dragon reborn without actually being the Dragon reborn.
And how do you define the Dragon Reborn? If you insist on simply being a rebirth of LTT then it just loops back to Rand being the first rebirth since his life as LTT and isn't Guaire by default.
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The other option, that of the Dragon being reborn without being the DR because the Pattern is telling lies seems rather out of character based on all we know.
How did you get to that being the only alternative?
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  #62  
Old 10-07-2016, 08:19 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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And how do you define the Dragon Reborn? If you insist on simply being a rebirth of LTT then it just loops back to Rand being the first rebirth since his life as LTT and isn't Guaire by default.
Well, duh!

If he is reborn, then isn't he reborn?

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It shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide...
Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world.
Weep for your salvation.

from The Karaethon Cycle: The Prophecies of the Dragon, as translated by Ellaine Marise'idin Alshinn, Chief Librarian at the Court of Arafel, in the Year of Grace 231 of the New Era, the Third Age
That quite specifically leaves out "born in between" as an alternative to "he was born before and shall be born again".

Do you have any kind of quote that could indicate that the Dragon had been reborn before Rand was left on Dragonmount?
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  #63  
Old 10-07-2016, 08:58 AM
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Well, duh!
Now Gonzo don't prove yourself my mental inferior by believing that anything is obvious.
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
If he is reborn, then isn't he reborn?

That quite specifically leaves out "born in between" as an alternative to "he was born before and shall be born again".

Do you have any kind of quote that could indicate that the Dragon had been reborn before Rand was left on Dragonmount?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, Gonzo. However your quote does seem to suggest there are no in between rebirths. So why did you sit on it for a week?
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  #64  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:10 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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It was obvious to the most casual reader. Plus, I hadn't searched with "born again" as a search term. Perhaps I have something of a blind spot for born again Dragons, or something.
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  #65  
Old 10-07-2016, 02:26 PM
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Things are only obvious in hindsight. Nothing is obvious before the realisation which in turn proves that nothing is obvious at all. There is only the current you feeling embarrassed over how long it took to realise something and doing injustice to your past self's efforts.

To me the definition of wisdom now seems obvious but the history of mankind shows that it is not. This proves that I'm awesome though not nearly as awesome as I was in the moment of realisation when I hadn't yet gotten cocky about this achievement.
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  #66  
Old 03-12-2017, 08:51 AM
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Maybe RJ just wanted to subconsciously highlight that Lews Therin was possibly just Loose Therein.
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  #67  
Old 03-12-2017, 11:45 AM
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Maybe RJ just wanted to subconsciously highlight that Lews Therin was possibly just Loose Therein.
Silly jokes aside, al'Thor was obviously intended to evoke Arthur. Do we know if Lews Therin was intended to evoke Uther?
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  #68  
Old 03-12-2017, 05:03 PM
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Silly jokes aside, al'Thor was obviously intended to evoke Arthur. Do we know if Lews Therin was intended to evoke Uther?
I thought al'Thor was supposed to evoke... Thor?
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  #69  
Old 03-12-2017, 05:38 PM
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I thought al'Thor was supposed to evoke... Thor?
He may have intended us to think of both names, but he especially seemed to draw from Camelot for the main cast (al'Thor (Arthur Pendragon), Merrilin (Merlin), Moiraine (Morgan le Fay), Morgase (Morgause), Egwene (Gwenevere), Lan (Lancelot), Gawyn (Gawain), Galad (Galahad), Elayne (Elaine - take your pick, there were a couple), Nynaeve (Nyneve and Nimue), Perrin (Percival).

Only major missing parallels are for Mat and Min.
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