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  #1  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:34 AM
rand rand is offline
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Default Game of Thrones season 7

Figured I'd start a thread since episode one is tomorrow. I'm not gonna lie, for some reason I don't feel overly hyped for it. I'm sure I'll get into it once it starts though. It looks like Dany will finally get to Westeros in episode 1 at least, so there's that.
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:56 PM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
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I'm pretty hyped. I think its gonna be a fairly explosive episode, and season. I predict Euron-Cersei alliance happens soon. And I suspect Bran will make it to Winterfell this episode, and tell Jon about his heritage...
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:15 PM
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Decent episode, though the show's versions of Cersei and Euron are both still pretty poor reflections of the source material, though considering that GRRM is too lazy to be bothered to even attempt to finish his story, there's not much that can be done about that. That said, the inclusion of Ed Sheeran was also a bit off-putting in general, and that entire scene seemed like it would have been better off excised.

I wish I could have higher hopes for this season, but unfortunately the shows writers have been far less skilled in creating the story than they were when they were simply able to adapt it.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:39 PM
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I don't really know what Ed Sheeran looks like honestly, so that didn't draw me out of the story as apparently happened with others. That said, that scene with Arya and the soldiers felt weird and unnecessary regardless of Sheeran being in it.

I'm wondering now how far show Arya is straying from book Arya. GRRM tends to keep things pretty realistic, so I wonder if he'll really have Arya go on a full on killing spree where she murders hundreds of people, or if it will be a bit more subtle. I liked the opening scene either way though.

So I guess Jorah's in Old Town now? I'm guessing that means Sam will leave for Dragonstone now too, taking Jorah with him.

My favorite scene was probably of the Hound. This might be Rory McCann's best episode, and he's had a lot of them.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:08 AM
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I don't really know what Ed Sheeran looks like honestly, so that didn't draw me out of the story as apparently happened with others. That said, that scene with Arya and the soldiers felt weird and unnecessary regardless of Sheeran being in it.

I'm wondering now how far show Arya is straying from book Arya. GRRM tends to keep things pretty realistic, so I wonder if he'll really have Arya go on a full on killing spree where she murders hundreds of people, or if it will be a bit more subtle. I liked the opening scene either way though.
Apparently Maisie Williams is a big Ed Sheeran fan. Hopefully that's the last we see him. The scene was just dumb. Had she at least killed them all (they were Lannister henchmen seemingly) it would have seemed less pointless. As for Arya's murder spree, it didn't seem particularly out of character, but it was likely HBO's way of trying to get something akin, if less dramatically appealing, to the revenge meted out by Manderly. Arya's version of that revenge was still the best part of the episode, at least in my opinion, but I liked Manderly's version in the book more, as it had evoked Atreus' revenge on Thyestes, whereas Arya's was reminiscent of Hunn Raal's poisoning of the Hust, albeit, admittedly Arya obviously doesn't come off anywhere near as much an evil pos as Hunn Raal, since the Freys had it coming.

As for what GRRM might do differently, yeah, I have no confidence in him ever finishing even Winds of Winter let alone the whole series.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:48 AM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
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That first scene was brilliant. 14 years since I read the Red Wedding. That was sweet sweet revenge. I think its a high sign of the shows success that it had me cheering on what can only be called a mass murder.

As for that scene... I actually liked it. Maise Williams did a good job showing minor flashes of yearning and emotion when people talk about their family. I don't think these people are going to die, and I think this was meant to be a start of Arya's redemption arc. She can't be psycho villain girl forever, and she's certainly not going to succeed in killing Cersei. She has to move on to other things, and I think this is a sign that she'll head back to her family, and its to help us accept why she chooses to not go to King's Landing.

Any thoughts on what Euron's "gift" will be? I think the horn from the books will finally show up, and we'll have a captive dragon.

Also, surprising scene from the preview:

Spoiler:
Someone is strangling Littlefinger. It looks like a person with dark hair that is slightly long, so... Sansa? I doubt he dies, it is way too early and they can't possibly give that shocking a twist away in a preview, but someone is going to be annoyed enough by him to strangle him. I look forward to the moment!
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:59 AM
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Any thoughts on what Euron's "gift" will be? I think the horn from the books will finally show up, and we'll have a captive dragon.
I hope it's the horn, but I doubt it. It seems like they're trying to take ignore everything that makes Euron cool in the books. Some people think he's captured Gendry, who's been confirmed to be back this season


A few more things:

Sansa' hair style is the same as Cersei's was in the earlier seasons.

Sandor's vision was presumably of Eastwatch, but if so, what's the mountain that looks like an arrowhead?

Anyone else think Littlefinger is the clearest example of the show runners not quite knowing what to do with the story without GRRM? He was great in King's Landing, but ever since leaving there it's like they have no idea what to have Littlefinger do.

The Dragonpit was mentioned a couple times. I'm not 100% sure, but this might be the first mention of it. I heard rumors a while ago saying that there'd be a huge scene at the Dragonpit featuring almost the entire main cast, so I hope this happens. Kind of like the Field of Merrilor in WoT.
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  #8  
Old 07-23-2017, 10:18 PM
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It continues to feel like all the major alterations that the show has made to the story have been colossal mistakes.

The sand snakes are all ridiculously awful characters. Especially in contrast to Arianne Martell. Choosing to excise Arianne and making this odd decision to make Ellaria take her place continues to be an unmitigated disaster. And now? Not only have they ruined the Dornish storyline, but also Euron's, which admittedly always seemed kind of a pointless and aimless tangent even in the books.

I suppose it is at least fitting that Dany has already managed to muck up her invasion. Not surprising. They should have just left her to rot in Slaver's Bay and had Tyrion meet up and then stay permanently with Aegon and Jon Connington. Instead the show continues to try to focus far too much on the two worst characters, Dany and Cersei, and failed to rehab Jaime.

At this point I'm almost hoping the wights win.
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2017, 04:11 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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At this point I'm almost hoping the wights win.
Could be what Martin has been aiming at all along too. In which case the show would still be true to the books, wouldn't it?
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:35 PM
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Holy crap. These shitheads fighting over Westeros needs to stop throwing away their armies and fleets.

Jon should be dead after his stupid charge last season.

And shouldn't Euron's fleet and What's-her-face's be fairly evenly matched? And how shitty sailors/pirates/viking-wannabes are you if you let a gigantic ship with even bigger sails just sneak up on the flagship containing every important character in the fleet?

Stuff like this just pisses me off. There shouldn't be a single man in warfaring age left in Westeros by now with the speed they're dying off.

And yeah. The Sand Snakes are supposed to be some of the best fighters around. And don't they always poison their weapons?

Euron didn't really need a "look how badass I am, killing people left and right even though I've been cut and stabbed a million times". All his awesome jokes on Jaime's expense last episode was all the awesome he needed.

And we can also just start counting down to Littlefinger and Sansa stabbing Jon in the back because it's GoT and by god we wont let anything go well because that would be too obvious...

Bleh. Just finished the episode and I felt like ranting.

Yeah. Let the White Walkers win. So far the Night King is the only leader with half a brain when it comes to warfare.
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  #11  
Old 07-24-2017, 04:26 PM
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Seriously, what is with the pacing of this episode, given how few are left. This would have been perfectly fine, good, even, in a 10 episode season, but in a 7 episode one, this just presages incredibly rushed episodes to come.

Agreed about the bizarreness of the whole Euron thing. First, Yara doesn't even think about him as a potential threat, in the "Mostly dick-free council" in the beginning of the episode.

Then, she supposedly has no watch set, and a giant armada of ships that are all larger than hers (how did they achieve this?) just happens to run into them on the wide seas?

Also, Quyburn's ballista was nice and all, but a stationary dragon skull is a vastly different proposition than a moving dragon. And didn't Dragons have armor, in the past?

And Jon... nice time to antagonize Littlefinger, you numbskull. Seriously, couldn't you have picked a better time to threaten a guy who you've now left behind to play his games with Sansa?

Also, since when did Kings have to go personally to make their case? Ever heard of emissaries? I really hoped he would send Sansa and Davos, and that way cut off LF from Sansa too. It would have made excellent sense, and Sansa seem to be angling for just that. But I guess they need to speed up the (icky icky icky) Danaerys-Jon romance. So we get this load of nonsense.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:44 PM
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As a non-book reader and show watcher only I'm already tired of Euron, mostly for the end scene. Cool and flashy? Sure. But A) Don't the sand snakes poison all their weapons? B) Is he just regular invincible now? I know (from reading online) that him coming 'back from the dead' is actually just primitive CPR so it's not like he can't be killed, but it seems like at the very least he's being shown like he could get beheaded and he would be up and about in 5

I always liked the 'villains' of past seasons because they didn't seem to be written like they're unkillable.
It seems lazy from what I've at least considered pretty well-written stuff the last 6 seasons
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:45 PM
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Also, Quyburn's ballista was nice and all, but a stationary dragon skull is a vastly different proposition than a moving dragon. And didn't Dragons have armor, in the past?
There'd also be the issue of altering the angle quickly against a target that isn't just moving horizontally, but vertically. The ballista was almost exclusively a siege weapon used against fortifications. Simple crossbows using heavier than normal quarrels (or incendiaries) would likely be far more effective. Either way, I'd prefer having the dragons attack a fortified position at night rather than in the day, making that ballista even less credible in terms of efficacy.

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And Jon... nice time to antagonize Littlefinger, you numbskull. Seriously, couldn't you have picked a better time to threaten a guy who you've now left behind to play his games with Sansa?

Also, since when did Kings have to go personally to make their case? Ever heard of emissaries? I really hoped he would send Sansa and Davos, and that way cut off LF from Sansa too. It would have made excellent sense, and Sansa seem to be angling for just that. But I guess they need to speed up the (icky icky icky) Danaerys-Jon romance. So we get this load of nonsense.
Equally silly, why isn't Jon having these conversations in private with Sansa and then just announcing his decisions in council so as to avoid these constant public arguments? Being an incompetent leader seems an ubiquitous character trait for the show.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:53 PM
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As a non-book reader and show watcher only I'm already tired of Euron, mostly for the end scene. Cool and flashy? Sure. But A) Don't the sand snakes poison all their weapons? B) Is he just regular invincible now? I know (from reading online) that him coming 'back from the dead' is actually just primitive CPR so it's not like he can't be killed, but it seems like at the very least he's being shown like he could get beheaded and he would be up and about in 5

I always liked the 'villains' of past seasons because they didn't seem to be written like they're unkillable.
It seems lazy from what I've at least considered pretty well-written stuff the last 6 seasons
Part of the problem is that the sand snakes aren't even fighters (except Obara) in the books. They are diplomat/assassins. Think more Putin kompromat operatives/assassins, rather than warriors. I think that the show was just lazy and decided that they already had introduced Ellaria (a very minor character in the books), and so decided to save money by excising Arianne Martell (a major character) and then having the sand skanks assassinate Doran.

The result was destroying the entire point of the Dorne plotline. Mind you the show has gotten significantly worse the last few seasons for an obvious reason - this is material that they had to completely fabricate as GRRM has been too lazy to bother writing any new material basically since the show began.
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:11 PM
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Yeah, book Ellaria is a sympathetic character who has a memorable line about the back-and-forth of vengeance, and then bows gracefully out of the scene. Arianne is a much more complex and interesting person, and Doran, far from being an idiot, is the kind of cautious and kind leader the show could really do with.

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There'd also be the issue of altering the angle quickly against a target that isn't just moving horizontally, but vertically. The ballista was almost exclusively a siege weapon used against fortifications. Simple crossbows using heavier than normal quarrels (or incendiaries) would likely be far more effective. Either way, I'd prefer having the dragons attack a fortified position at night rather than in the day, making that ballista even less credible in terms of efficacy.
Yup. Plus, the contraption Quyburn showed us didn't look all that maneuverable.

Also, if Dragonfire can melt metal, what's to stop them from just sending a stream of fire at an incoming bolt?

Quote:
Equally silly, why isn't Jon having these conversations in private with Sansa and then just announcing his decisions in council so as to avoid these constant public arguments? Being an incompetent leader seems an ubiquitous character trait for the show.
Yes, these public fights are getting tiring. Once was somewhat understandable, but if Sansa is being set up as this super-politician, it does their cause no good by having her not realize the difference between public and private dissent.
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:37 PM
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They're clearly setting Sansa up to either willingly or accidentally betray Jon. That's the cause of all the public fight scenes imo.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:39 PM
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They're clearly setting Sansa up to either willingly or accidentally betray Jon. That's the cause of all the public fight scenes imo.
Either that, or all this is to encourage Littlefinger into thinking he can widen the rift, and Sansa plays along, till she undercuts him in the last minute and kills him off.

I have nothing to explain why I think this is coming, but there seems to be honest affection and respect in the Sansa-Jon alone scenes, but in public, she's a lot more antagonistic with him. I feel she's doing this for LF's benefit. She keeps looking at him in these scenes, and they keep cutting to his smirk in these scenes, as he sees these rifts. It seems like a setup.

She's playing the reluctant seductee who needs "rescue" by LF, and he seems to be wading into it, because he doesn't see that Sansa seems to genuinely love Jon, though I'm sure her frustrates her too.

And guess who's going to join Sansa soon: assassin extraordinaire Arya. Who better to kill LF, take on his face, and then basically deliver the Vale to Sansa?
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:21 PM
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They're clearly setting Sansa up to either willingly or accidentally betray Jon. That's the cause of all the public fight scenes imo.
It would be impressive in the sense that it would make me hate her character even more than I already do.

Sansa is utterly freaking annoying. You never, ever disagree in front of others in such a situation. Whether its a modern day office with your manager or a fantasy version of the Wars of the Roses (Now With Dragons!!!) television show.
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:51 PM
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Regarding the Sand Snakes, I assume they only poison their weapons before a fight rather than constantly keeping them poisoned, so if they were (somehow) caught off guard by Euron's attack they probably would just jump into the fighting right away without applying poison first.

I agree Sansa's annoying. The books strongly imply she'll kill Littlefinger herself, so there's that at least. It also doesn't help that Sophie Turner's a terrible actress, IMO.

Wouldn't it have been easier to just knock Jorah out somehow, rather than basically skin the guy alive?

Also what's up with everyone dressing up like Matrix characters all of a sudden?
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:04 AM
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Sansa is utterly freaking annoying. You never, ever disagree in front of others in such a situation. Whether its a modern day office with your manager or a fantasy version of the Wars of the Roses (Now With Dragons!!!) television show.
While I agree, I also feel the fault is partly Jon's for tossing out these ideas for the first time in public. Why not discuss it with your sister first, then call the meeting of the lords? By not talking this through, he's all but forcing Sansa to make her (usually reasonable) points in public. Either that, or she shuts up and watches yet another family member die of acute Honorrrrr! syndrome.
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