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  #1  
Old 10-02-2017, 09:52 AM
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Default This Happens Far Too Often

Will we never do the sensible thing and excise the 2nd Amendment?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41471242

Quote:
A man has opened fire on concertgoers in Las Vegas, killing more than 50 people. Another 406 were taken to hospital.
The suspected gunman shot himself dead, say police.
What happened?
Some 22,000 people were attending a country music festival late on Sunday night in the open air by the Las Vegas strip.
The first shots rang out shortly after 22:00 local time (05:00 GMT).
The gunman fired from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel before shooting himself dead. Earlier reports said he was killed by police.
Witnesses say hundreds of shots were fired and the sound of automatic gunfire was heard.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2017, 10:27 AM
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Will we never do the sensible thing and excise the 2nd Amendment?
Is that really sensible though? It's definitely worded badly, but beyond that I'm not sure it should be "excised".

Kind of surprised Ivhon deleted his thread. Was pretty bitter I guess but for all that probably more sensible.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Will we never do the sensible thing and excise the 2nd Amendment?
Based what I've understood from previous debates on gun control, one should wait for at least half a year after the last shooting before trying to hold a debate on this. Right at this moment, tempers are flaring, and that means that emotions are all that people listen to.
Now, one could argue that there never is a good time to discuss pointless and unnecessary violence, so one might as well do that now. But apparently (it took me a while to get this too), that is not an acceptable approach.

Of course, actually adhering to the text of the 2nd (with that "well regulated militia" bit as more than empty blather) could already do loads of good. Surprisingly enough, though, this is one area where conservatives aren't interested in strict literalism.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Is that really sensible though? It's definitely worded badly, but beyond that I'm not sure it should be "excised".

Kind of surprised Ivhon deleted his thread. Was pretty bitter I guess but for all that probably more sensible.
I deleted it a) because I'm trying to tone down the bitterness. Some. and b) because at the time I wrote it, the whiteness of the mass-murdering terrorist with a gun had not been confirmed. I had made an assumption. Which of course was born out, but still.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2017, 10:44 AM
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I can honestly say I just feel a numb detachment right now. And that is awful.

Like the kind of emotional severing that happens when you watch a loved one keep doing drugs, even after several overdoses.

A form of self preservation because it is getting too hard to care so much about a country that just seems unable to help itself in any way.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:46 AM
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Is that really sensible though? It's definitely worded badly, but beyond that I'm not sure it should be "excised".

Kind of surprised Ivhon deleted his thread. Was pretty bitter I guess but for all that probably more sensible.
Not sure why you're taking issue. Even if we did excise the 2nd Amendment at the federal level (which certainly seems impossible, but certainly not insensible), that would still leave it open to individual action at the state and local level. Indeed it is the vague wording of the 2nd Amendment that has created so much of the difficulty in providing gun control at present at the state and local level, areas which once allowed far more nuanced degrees of interpretation from community to community prior to Scalia's reinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment rendered it akin to the 11th Commandment in the eyes of republicans.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:50 AM
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Geez. More than 50 dead and 400 wounded.
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Old 10-02-2017, 11:54 AM
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It's only going to go up. Currently 58 Dead, 515 Injured.

Absolutely horrific.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Is that really sensible though? It's definitely worded badly, but beyond that I'm not sure it should be "excised".
I'll answer that with a question: if it was "excised" would those 59 people be dead and 515 still be injured?
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:00 PM
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I'll answer that with a question: if it was "excised" would those 59 people be dead and 515 still be injured?
Since it is highly unlikely that the fully automatic weapon used last night was legal and registered, there would be no difference if more laws had been passed for the shooter to ignore.
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:30 PM
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Since it is highly unlikely that the fully automatic weapon used last night was legal and registered, there would be no difference if more laws had been passed for the shooter to ignore.
Doesn't seem like there has been a clear statement yet on whether his rifles were fully automatic (hence illegal), or legally purchased semi-automatics that had been converted into basically automatic using legally purchased accessories.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...semi-automatic

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Law enforcement officials have yet to confirm what kind of firearms Stephen Paddock used to shoot from his Mandalay Bay hotel room into a crowd of people at a country music festival in Las Vegas, killing at least 58 people, though early reports suggest he had as many as 10 guns, including some rifles.

The rapid pace of the gunfire suggested that the shooter was using either a fully automatic weapon, tightly restricted under US law, or that he had attached a device to a semi-automatic gun to make it fire more continuously, said Massad Ayoob, a firearms expert, instructor and author.

“It’s faster than almost any human being is going to be able to pull a trigger on a semi-automatic,” Ayoob said.

Fully automatic weapons, which fire multiple rounds of ammunition from a single pull of the trigger, are strictly regulated, taxed and tracked under US law. This makes them expensive collectors’ items, and comparatively rarely used in crimes. Semi-automatic rifles, in contrast, which fire only one round of ammunition with each pull of the trigger, are widely available.

Unlike some states, Nevada, which has laws generally friendly to gun owners, does not ban the sale of “assault weapons” – semi-automatic civilian guns built to resemble military weapons.

From listening to the footage of the attack, Ayoob said that the gunshots “did not sound as consistent” as he would typically expect from a fully automatic M-16 or AK-47. “The pace of fire is a little bit erratic. At one point it’s slower than it is at another point.”

Paddock could have used a Hellfire or a bump-fire device, which attach to normal semi-automatic rifles and allow them to fire more rapidly, Ayoob said. These devices are legal, but rarely used by serious shooters, he said.

“It’s hard to shoot accurately with them, and serious shooters want accuracy,” he said. He called them “not terribly popular” and “something a gun geek would want”.
Our country's worship of guns both confuses and disgusts me.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2017, 04:24 PM
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Since it is highly unlikely that the fully automatic weapon used last night was legal and registered, there would be no difference if more laws had been passed for the shooter to ignore.
Reports saying 20 weapons one of which has been converted to full automatic fire. Doesn't say if the AK's or AR's were full auto or semi-automatic, but with that many I'm going to assume many were purchased legally.

On the other hand the Onion gets to up date this article again. I guess that's something.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:12 AM
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bitter, disgusted and sad.

That being said, America: get your shit together and stop hogging "horrible news" headlines.

We've got the Catalan vote to process, the Brexit to manage, the next goddamn real estate bubble to avoid, convince people to go at least flexitarian (did you see that recalculation of the cattle-related methane gas effects on Global Warming? *shudder*), get Brazilians to understand that killing tribes in the Amazon is a Bad Thing,figure out how come North Korea is such good friends with Egypt, and figure out why is Putin so quiet about all of the above, what is he up to...
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:13 AM
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We've got the Catalan vote to process, ...
Why not leave that one to Angela Merkel?

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... the Brexit to manage, ...
I don't think anyone (not even Merkel) could manage that particular mess. The core issue there is deliberate ignorance, and managing that is fundamentally impossible.

Quote:
... the next goddamn real estate bubble to avoid, ...
It is slightly more rational than Tulip Mania, which started off this bubble habit centuries ago.

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... figure out how come North Korea is such good friends with Egypt, ...
Who wouldn't want to be friends with either?

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... and figure out why is Putin so quiet about all of the above, what is he up to...
He is plotting to introduce gay marriage into China, now that he has managed to destroy the whole of the West with it. Isn't that obvious?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:01 AM
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If a bunch of little kids dying didn't change the gun control debate, I doubt a few score concert goers dying will.

As sad as that is.

Brexit is an absolute disaster and May will likely be gone as PM before much longer due to her idiocy. Boris will be gone as Foreign Secretary too...and he seemingly wants to be gone from that role right now.

Catalonia is acting selfishly and stupidly and they broke a bunch of laws. On the other hand, Spain's crackdown on the referendum was just as stupid.

Oh and its sad that Tom Petty died.


Did I miss anything else during my two weeks on holiday in Scotland?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:23 AM
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Did I miss anything else during my two weeks on holiday in Scotland?
Trump tweeted.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:56 PM
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If a bunch of little kids dying didn't change the gun control debate, I doubt a few score concert goers dying will.

As sad as that is.

Brexit is an absolute disaster and May will likely be gone as PM before much longer due to her idiocy. Boris will be gone as Foreign Secretary too...and he seemingly wants to be gone from that role right now.

Catalonia is acting selfishly and stupidly and they broke a bunch of laws. On the other hand, Spain's crackdown on the referendum was just as stupid.

Oh and its sad that Tom Petty died.


Did I miss anything else during my two weeks on holiday in Scotland?
Admittedly, accomplishing anything, no matter how sensible, does seem impossible at present with gun control, but one still can’t help but think that there are some basic concessions that even hardened gun worshippers should agree to - like making accessories that convert legal semi-automatics into fully automatics should be illegal, and that every legal gun purchase must be registered, so that in instances where an individual amasses, as this man did, 47 guns, the FBI should kick down his door and arrest him upon an overwhelming presumption of ill-intent.

It’s not like I’m asking that we just make all guns illegal and melt them all down. I mean that would obviously be the logical and prudent thing to do, but ‘Merica clearly isn’t a land that values logic or prudence.

As for Catalonia, this situation seems, at least to me, to have gone far beyond selfish pique. Spain has acted so egregiously heavy-handed, that I would have to imagine that even many who would have otherwise opposed secession, now are fed up with Spain because of how abusive and violent the attempt to supress the referendum was. Compare that to how Britain handled the secession movement with Scotland, or how Canada handled their issues in the past with Quebec. What Spain is doing seems reminiscent, indeed far worse, than the way that China has been cracking down on Hong Kong. Admittedly, we acted pretty forcibly to stop South Carolina and the rest of the rebels ourselves once upon a time, but Spain hasn’t the same noble justification that we had. And let’s be blunt if South Carolina and the rest of the Confederacy asked to leave again, I’d gleefully celebrate their departure. And I doubt that I would be alone in that sentiment.

Spain just seems intent on ensuring that Catalonia appears to the whole world the victim, and that they seem like the abusive drunken pos that deserves to be served with the divorce papers.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:25 PM
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One of the things Spain has been stressing is that if Catalonia becomes independent, it wouldn't be a EU member. Maybe Theresa May would be willing to start a trade community with Catalonia?
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:48 PM
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Did I miss anything else during my two weeks on holiday in Scotland?
Check here.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:58 AM
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Spain has suspended Catalonia's autonomous parliament...that'll solve the issue, right?

Nobody suspects the Spanish Civil War...
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