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  #181  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:05 PM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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No, but if all you have are a few dozen incidents a year, then a couple of hundred teenage idiots of the Muslim persuasion can seriously distort the statistics.

Caveat: the actual numbers will be different from what I just gave. I used what can be described as an "uneducated guess" in this case.
  #182  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara
Um, sorry but I think we're forgetting that the majority of practicing Muslims aren't extremist, hateful terrorists who hate Jews.
I'm not implying that they are. But the more overall numbers of Muslims in a country, the greater potential for extremists there are. Even if say 2% of all muslims are extremists, adding 1 million muslims is giving you another 20K extremists to the pot (just a number, not an real estimate). Thus, there is a far greater potential for violence. That is exactly what we're seeing happen in W. Europe.
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  #183  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:12 PM
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Actually I'd say that the anti-Muslim (and North African) sentiment is FAR higher than anti-semitism in Europe. The xenophobic attitude that Europeans have towards Muslims and North Africans is pretty awful.
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  #184  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:17 PM
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  #185  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:22 PM
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Oh yes, they're still getting a raw deal. No doubt about that.

BBC article on Israeli Arabs.
Quote:
The other factor this time is Mr Lieberman, whose party may even beat Labour into third place on the back of a general swing to the right among Israeli voters enthusiastic about the Gaza operation.

Anat Tolnai, 40 and Ihsan Ka'biya, 35, a Jewish-Arab couple, see his popularity as linked to what Israeli-Arab organisations say is a growth in racist attitudes.

"'Kill the Arabs' used to be a phrase used only on the extreme right - now people say it much more," says Ms Tolnai.
Is "Kill the Arabs" (or "kill the Gypsies") really a much better sentiment than "kill the Jews"? I would say that they are equally reprehensible.
  #186  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:41 PM
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Ishara, why do the two need to be mutually exclusive? Anti-semitism and general xenophobia can be both on the rise in tandem. The former is cerainly not confined to Muslims; Christians and other faiths are perfectly capable of it. Black or white, liberal or conservative, people with anti-semitic beliefs probaly number roughly one in ten. Islam probably skews the figure somewhat, but I can think of at least a couple of reasons which are partially ancillary to Islam for that: one, anti-semitism in the Middle East is much higher -- a clear supermajority of Palestinians has Jew-hating beliefs, often quite shockingly so -- and that area is dominated by particularly those strains of Islam most likely to keep their areas Muslim-dominated; and two, blacks are disproportionately Muslim and may be concurrently more likely to fold anti-Jewish prejudice into a special case of general anti-white prejudice.(By contrast, while white anti-Jewish prejudice meshes well with anti-black prejudice, the bigot still needs two prejudices; they don't map onto each other to the point of being self-perceivable as aspects of the same thing.)

This is not to say that everyone with prejudice is capable of violence in its support, either, but there is a lot of anti-Jewish sentiment out there, and there doesn't need to be a majority of the population or a plurality among the bigots for that to be true.
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Last edited by the silent speaker; 02-05-2009 at 03:44 PM.
  #187  
Old 02-06-2009, 03:34 AM
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Of course, there is also the fact that not all criticism of Israel needs to be rooted in anti-semitism. Just as not all criticism of the actions of the Khmer Rouge was based in racism against Cambodians, and not all criticism of Robert Mugabe is based on anti-black sentiments.

Well, I think that I have some reasons for criticising those latter two which are not based in racism. It is of course possible that if you lot weren't racist, you would happily cheer them on in all their follies.

Anyways, I do think that a lot of criticism of Israeli policy is falsely labelled "anti-semitism". Doing so risks letting real anti-semitism slip through the cracks, and that is one valid reason which should worry even pro-Israel advocates.
  #188  
Old 02-06-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Anyways, I do think that a lot of criticism of Israeli policy is falsely labelled "anti-semitism". Doing so risks letting real anti-semitism slip through the cracks, and that is one valid reason which should worry even pro-Israel advocates.
Just what I'd expect a blatant anti-semite to say...
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  #189  
Old 02-06-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
Just what I'd expect a blatant anti-semite to say...
Maybe this was already covered in the thread, but Dav, are you saying that it is impossible to opposing Israel's policies necessarily equates to anti-semitism? Please clarify.
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  #190  
Old 02-06-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian
Maybe this was already covered in the thread, but Dav, are you saying that it is impossible to opposing Israel's policies necessarily equates to anti-semitism? Please clarify.
It was actually joking around. It is completely possible to oppose Israel's policies and not be Anti-semitic.
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