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  #61  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
My memory is a bit shaky on the book but was there not some mention of the Prophet actually having meetings with Seanchan? Now of course he could have stolen the warrent then used it to get local Seanchan commanders on side or at least out of his way but negotations suggest some contact that could have been started by Suroth.
Berelain sur Paendrag's thief-catchers Haviar and Nerion found direct evidence of those meetings between the Seanchan led by Suroth and Masema personally (see COT Chapter 6). They also learned of meetings between Annoura & Masema, and later Masuri & Masema. Haviar & Nerion soon after "disappeared" to never return to Perrin & Berelain camp. Masuri was sent by the Wise Ones with Perrin's army; and Annoura went on her own with anyone else direction we know of.

Annoura, I've always suspected of being possibly being a darkfriend. As Berelain was previously taken by Bel'al in Tear, without Annoura being present; and now this meeting with Masema, for what purpose?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
If he did steal it who would have it? Its seems a pretty valuable documents and Suroth comes across to me as a bit of a control freak. She does not strike me as someone who gives any underling that much authority without very good reason.
Agreed, she is a control freak. Fearful of being found out, as a darkfriend too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
I can't see it being given to any other Seanchan. If it was someone in her command why would they need it? Suroth does not like lowering herself to deal with banner generals so any Seanchan who had dealings with her would probably be high enough ranking as to be able to order others around on his/her own authority.
Only Tuon, Galgan and Tuon's truthspeaker (Semirhage) are of a higher rank to Suroth. Everyone else in the Seanchan Empire would not need an Carte Blanche Warrant like which Masema once possessed, because of the rigid top to bottom system of status & control. Only someone outside of the Seanchan system would need a warrant like this, to be unaffected.

There's also the small fact that the territory held by the Prophet holds a long relatively depopulated border with Andor in the west. By reaching an agreement with the Prophet, a relatively secret & safe direct route to Tar Valon is opened up:
(1)Northern Altara or Ghealdan thru Western Andor
(2)Across the Caralain Grass lands, with camps by the River Haevin & River Luan
(3)Over the Black Hills just north of the Dragonmount
This raid on Tar Valon would align with Tuon, Suroth and Semirhage's goals. Semirhage wants to knockout Mesaana in the White Tower, Suroth fears the Aes Sedai yet wants to become Empress now, and Tuon just plain fears the White Tower's Aes Sedai supposed "weapon" and believes Ishamael's maded up prophecy with her at the center of everything in status.

Of course, Suroth now is a slave and Semirhage has been captured by Rand's group, leaving Tuon goals alone in the forefront now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Suroth would issue a Carte Blanche to any DF a forsaken told her to. We know that she has had dealings with Forsaken other than Semirhage because she was involved with Liandrin's kidnapping of the supergirls.
That event was at the very, very beginning of the series when almost all the Forsaken were being forced to follow the very same agenda. Ishamael set-up that kidnapping of Egwene & Nynaeve, but Elayne was not in that original plan of Ishamael & Liandrin's.

Semirhage also was the one to send Trollocs into the Stone to counter Sammael's Trollocs on the Dark One's orders, as well. The Dark One's didn't want to kill the Dragon Reborn then, unlike Sammael who did. Semirhage followed orders like a good soldier. The Dark One wants to "turn" Rand to his side ideally, not kill him if given the chance.


Back to Masema's connection to the Seanchan & Suroth; there is more to that "alliance" than a piece of paper. The Seanchan Empire & military were actively supplying the Prophet's mob with food & goods from Altara.

Suroth's forces could of easily taken Ghealdan, but why if one can co-opted it and possibly gain Illian as well. The Seanchan didn't count on Rand's Asha'men and quick transportation of fresh soldiers into Illian to check their invasion & counter-attack into Altara though.

Gheadlan as it is, is relatively cut-off from outside support because of the Seanchan Empire to the south, east & west, and Garens' Wall to the North limiting access by land to Andor. Gheadlan is sort of a cud de sac by land, however not now with access by Air by the Seanchan, and Traveling Gateways by Asha'men, Salidar Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, and Sea Folk Windwinders. Gheadlan isn't as cut-off and defenseless as the Seanchan Empire might of once thought.


Masema now lacks a warrant of protection from the Seanchan Empire's military. His mob army has been seriously damaged in both numbers and now lacks the guarantee of constant supplies from the Seanchan, because of Perrin's actions.

Where will Masema go now, do I think?
Murandy. Exactly where Fain, likely is heading as well. Murandy will be in the storyline sometime before the WoT ends, I'm sure of it.

Oddly enough Verin left northern Tear about the same time; Masema's remaining forces fleed Altara in the direction of Murandy. I don't think Verin wants to met up with Masema again though; more likely she's heading up to Andor to meet-up with the Borderlanders' armies outside of Caemyln.

I still think Verin had something to do with the creation of Masema's madness, between Far Moran to Cairhiern to Falme to the Mountains of Mist. Before even meeting Masema the first time, Verin mentioned to Moiraine & Siuan an active interest in "madness, insanity" in Far Moran. Remember when Verin used Compulsion on the captured Aes Sedai in Cairhiern, her suggested commands were all delayed in being acted upon. Masema's madness and actions to become the Prophet also were delayed in being acted upon.

The Black Ajah had already attempted to stop and limit Siuan's trip to Far Moran to visit Moiraine and the three boys (Perrin, Mat, Rand). The Hall barely voted to let Siuan go, but with limitations imposed upon her though. Talene was one, to vote against Siuan going which was a shocker to Moiraine & Siuan - the Greens voting against a Blue ruler. Only the uncertainty of Browns Sitters let Siuan go to Far Moran. What I'm getting to is, that the Shadow's and the Black Ajah's plans already were relatively developed in how to attempt to counter-attack and turn the Dragon Reborn to their side; even though they didn't know who the actual Dragon Reborn was till after Far Moran at the earliest.

Pulling the Borderlanders southward, by destroying the Dragon Reborn's reputation was already in the plans before the Shadow knew who the actual Dragon likely was: one of the three boys, in Far Moran. Lanfear and Shaidar Haran surely knew this then. Masema & Taim's roles were part of the Dark One's plans from the get go, as one side of the attack. Lanfear played the Shadow's role of attempting to turn the Dragon Reborn's heart...but she became a double agent with her own goals, which even Moghedien figured out.


Masema's distrust of Aes Sedai and the One Power also might stem vague memories of being brainwashed during the insanity process by Verin (hunch only). Masema before that trip southward from Far Moran, didn't seem one to be distrustful of Aes Sedai nor the One Power. Only during that trip, and afterwards, did Masema change his views. The question is what brought, created this extreme dislike of the One Power?

Last edited by FelixPax; 09-01-2009 at 05:43 PM.
  #62  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:06 PM
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Personally I believe Suroth invovled herself with Masema because he serves a few functions for her plan. First he eats away at the armed forces of the nobles ahead of the Seanchan advance leave the going a lot easier for them with the do move. Secondly his mob is a very convenient buffer that any attacking force that did not have access to air power or travelling would have to go through to attack the Seanchan.

Thirdly newly captured citizens would probably welcome the order and stability of Seanchan occupation after the chaos of Masema's mob. Lastly he is a link to Rand, not the greatest link but still a link of sorts.

Where will he go now? Thats anyones guess. It would be fun if he bumped into Fain and they could start a lunatics annonomous group.

I can't see Verin doing anything to Masema, or if she did I doubt she would let him get out of control. In TGH Verin was very focused on getting a read on what Rand was like and pointing him in what she believed to be the right direction. Up till that point Moirane was the only AS who had any idea of what he was like. Verin's contact was limited and she seemed pretty focused on him.

Even if she had wanted to when would she have got him alone? The were travelling south was a band of soldiers. It would have been very strange for an AS to take any of the soldiers off on their own and I beleive Verin's "watered down compulsion" needs a few sessions to take hold fully.

As for FelixPax's last point I would agree that teh Shadow was a lot more united in TEofW and at the begining of TGH because Ishamael was running the show. At some stage during TGH the rest of the forsaken emerged and once they got the lay of the land they started co-opting shadow resourses to their individual plans and then different dark friends ended up getting different and sometimes conflicting orders.
  #63  
Old 09-01-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax
That event was at the very, very beginning of the series when almost all the Forsaken were being forced to follow the very same agenda. Ishamael set-up that kidnapping of Egwene & Nynaeve, but Elayne was not in that original plan of Ishamael & Liandrin's.
To be precise, Liandrin turning them over to Suroth at Falme was 511 days before Semirhage arrived disguised as Anath in Winter's Heart Chapter 14. In that nearly year and a half, Suroth gained command of the largest single military force on the planet and you don't think she's been given any orders by Forsaken?

We know that Moridin was in Ebou Dar just hours before the Seanchan invasion arrived (with the Gholam nearby) and we know that Greandal's base of operations is Arad Domon and Sammael thinks "events in the south" have Demandred's fingerprints on them -- possibly the buildup against his domain by the Seanchan rather than Rand's diversionary forces?

I think it is inconceivable that Suroth hasn't been under some Forsaken's orders nearly continuously since she arrived at Falme the first time.
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  #64  
Old 09-02-2009, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
To be precise, Liandrin turning them over to Suroth at Falme was 511 days before Semirhage arrived disguised as Anath in Winter's Heart Chapter 14. In that nearly year and a half, Suroth gained command of the largest single military force on the planet and you don't think she's been given any orders by Forsaken?

We know that Moridin was in Ebou Dar just hours before the Seanchan invasion arrived (with the Gholam nearby) and we know that Greandal's base of operations is Arad Domon and Sammael thinks "events in the south" have Demandred's fingerprints on them -- possibly the buildup against his domain by the Seanchan rather than Rand's diversionary forces?

I think it is inconceivable that Suroth hasn't been under some Forsaken's orders nearly continuously since she arrived at Falme the first time.
Maybe I didn't write clear enough WH.

Ishamael, I will agree is behind the invasion of the Westlands with Semirhage's direct assistance as Tuon's Truthspeaker. I would find it difficult to believe Semirhage also didn't order Suroth around before the invasion as well.

I never suggested the Suroth was not under orders of a Forsaken at Falme. I simply meant to say that Suroth and Ishamael did not expect Elayne to be coming along with Liandrin; during the kidnapping of Egwene & Nynaeve, who both were directly in that Ishy plan, from the White Tower. Hence Suroth unhappiness about trying to leesh 3 damane, not 2 damane...besides taking Min, too.

Ishamael said in a dream that the Egwene wanted to protect Rand. Part of Ishamael's plan was to pull his friends & protectors away from the Dragon Reborn.

That's also one reason why an assassination attempt was made on Moiraine by a warded Draghkar in Arafel. Moiraine was a protector of the Dragon Reborn, who also happened too be suspicious about Verin after Far Moran & again much later near Cairhien before she took out Lanfear at the docks.

Last edited by FelixPax; 09-02-2009 at 01:30 AM.
  #65  
Old 09-02-2009, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by FelixPax
Maybe I didn't write clear enough WH.


I simply meant to say that Suroth and Ishamael did not expect Elayne to be coming along with Liandrin;
What does that have to do with a forsaken possibly ordering Suroth to issue the Carte Blanche found in Masema's desk?
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  #66  
Old 09-02-2009, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Enigma
Where will he go now? Thats anyones guess. It would be fun if he bumped into Fain and they could start a lunatics annonomous group.
King Roedran Almaric do Arreloa a'Naloy is a bit paranoid to say the least, as previously there was talk of invasion of his country from the south by Illian under Sammael, now the Seanchan threat out of the western border, and possible threats of invasion by Andoran nobles who did seek to stop the Salidar Aes Sedai from crossing into Andor.

Roedran then built up his military force, gaining more central control of Murandy territory, after doing this he was going to double cross Talmanes' group of the Band of Red Hand.

Murandy has become anti-foreigner since Siuan, Min, Leane & Logain all fleed across the land to Salidar from the White Tower. Which is really saying something because this is a country which is historically a distribution hub of commerce in the Westlands to Illian, Ebou Dar, Gheadlan, Tear, Andor. Even the traders in Far Madding are fearful of King Roedran recent moves, and are moving their trade elsewhere, as Rand heard himself (WH,Ch32).

Padan Fain would seem to fit in perfectly now, as his native land has become a type of "New Shadar Logoth" and where can replay the role of Mordeth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
I can't see Verin doing anything to Masema, or if she did I doubt she would let him get out of control. In TGH Verin was very focused on getting a read on what Rand was like and pointing him in what she believed to be the right direction. Up till that point Moirane was the only AS who had any idea of what he was like. Verin's contact was limited and she seemed pretty focused on him.
True, Verin was and still is focus on Rand. That's one reason she went to Two Rivers, taking along Alanna. Why? Because she heard Rand express his fear's that Padan Fain would hurt is homeland. Verin expected Rand to come, but he instead followed prophecy & went to Tear. Verin had been priming, manipulating Alanna to bond "Rand" for sometime, in route to Two Rivers. Later Verin succeeds in getting Rand bonded by Alanna, but it doesn't work as she thought it would on Rand in that Caemlyn Inn.

Verin had my now learned Two Rivers folk culture, and it was relatively easy for her to manipulate the Salidar Aes Sedai embassy once, she heard Rand say he felt he had supporters among them. Verin pushed the buttons of that Salidar Embassy, who then later tried to push Rand's buttons in Caemlyn as Verin wanted them too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
Even if she had wanted to when would she have got him alone? The were travelling south was a band of soldiers. It would have been very strange for an AS to take any of the soldiers off on their own and I beleive Verin's "watered down compulsion" needs a few sessions to take hold fully.
No one else in that party was a channeler, except for the times Rand was there. There is a section from Far Moran to Cairhien where Rand was elsewhere in the Dream world with Hurin, Loial. Also during the events at Falme, Verin was left alone was the only channeler around with the Shienarans soldiers when Rand, Mat, Ingtar, Perrin and Hurin all went into town.

Now here's what Elayne & Nynaeve learned about Compulsion from Moghedien:

Quote:
Some of what the woman knew was just too repulsive. Compulsion, for instance, bending people's will, and a way to implant instructions so the recipent would not even remember the orders when he carried them out. Worst things. Too repulsive, and maybe dangerous to trust anyone with.
Source: TSR, Elayne's pov

Verin seems to know this particular weave, already based on her later actions of Compulsion against the sisters of the Elaida directed Cairhien Embassy (and Alviarin/Mesaana commands too). Just interesting that both Verin & Moghedien know the roughly same weave, Compulsion. As does Liandrin, interestingly enough too, as we learned during her experience in Tarabon with a top White Cloak official.

Verin did something with the One Power to Masema, which caused his insanity; just what though is a good question. It wasn't a one time Compulsion weave that much we can guess, based on the fact Compulsion works poor in men, according to Verin (TPoD: Prologue) Verin knows a lot about madness, based on her own comments...but she's not sure how it works with channelling males, yet she wants to learn about it.

Remember Verin has soften a person up for Compulsion by healing them first, as she did to: Turanna Norill, Beldeine Nyram et al. If she is as knowledgeable about madness as she is of Compulsion, she surely had enough time to work on Masema during that long trip.

Last edited by FelixPax; 09-02-2009 at 02:50 AM.
  #67  
Old 09-02-2009, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Weird Harold
What does that have to do with a forsaken possibly ordering Suroth to issue the Carte Blanche found in Masema's desk?
Huh? Weird Harold, I'm not sure what your asking me here at all.

One of my points was that the Shadow was in on the whole Carte Blanche warrant to protect Masema and also to supply his forces, in order to create chaos in Gheadlan.

Suroth & Semirhage were in on this whole deal with Masema. Semirhage very, very likely knows about Masema's background and brainwashing before he arrived in Gheadlan as well. She knew this before the invasion of Amadicia & Ebou Dar. Individuals like Masema were part of Ishamael original plan, to discredit the Dragon Reborn reputation. That's one of reasons Suroth gives that warrant to Masema, even though he's nuts. Semirhage has not yet, violated any of Ishamael's orders that I've seen in the book--the grand raid on Tar Valon may violate what Ishamael wants, but it's hard to be sure now.

What I'm still attempting to figure out, deduce, is which particular Forsaken, has Verin met and/or take orders from over the course of the books. Ishamael, Mesaana, Demandred, Semirhage, Lanfear, Moghedien and maybe even Graendal are all possibilities here. Verin is known to of had nightmares since at least the "New Spring book", a hint of going to the Dream World and/or being pulled there?


What's also a strange connection within the series, is many of the nutheads at one time or another have met Verin, then began to expressed their madness after she left the scene:
(1)Aram in Two Rivers & Cairhien, towards Perrin & threatening him.
(2)Masema, from Far Moran to the Mountain of Mists, spreading chaos
Still it's bizarre that both Masema AND Aram later meet up together, and agree that Perrin is a threat, who needs to die.

Which leads me to wonder, which nuthead or nutheads did Verin leave with Rand's group after leaving him in Tear, for parts unknown. Verin always seems to leave a bad gift behind....

Last edited by FelixPax; 09-02-2009 at 03:08 AM.
  #68  
Old 09-02-2009, 06:05 AM
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Masema was already a nutcase when we first encountered him, in TGH. There's no evidence that he'd ever met Verin, then. He did become nuttier still, but that's rather understandable with all the shocks to his system that he had had.
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:20 AM
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My opinion regarding Masema is that he became a loon (and all current lvls of his lunacy) all on his own. No Shadow interference in that. Only after that did the Shadow (or for that matter, Seanchan) start to influence and have dealings with him.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:28 AM
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But why is it people around him go loony too? That didn't occur till after TDR when he began to proclaim the glory of the DR.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:39 AM
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Yes, it did. In TDR there is an account of Masema already proclaiming the Dragon and preaching succesfully.
Quote:
TDR, A Different Dance, Chapter 34

"Answer her!" Lan said harshly. "Is there a false Dragon in Ghealdan?"
"Ah. Ah, no, Master Andra, not precisely. I said there's a man proclaiming the Dragon in Ghealdan, so we heard a few days gone. Preaching his coming, you might say. Talking about that fellow over in Tarabon we've heard about. Though some do say 'tis Arad Doman, not Tarabon. A long way from here, in any case. Why, any other day, I expect we'd talk more of that than anything else, except maybe the wild tales about Hawkwing's army come back —" Lan's cold eyes might as well have been knife blades from the way Furlan swallowed and scrubbed his hands faster. "I only know what I hear, Master Andra. 'Tis said the fellow has a stare can pin you where you stand, and he talks all sorts of rubbish about the Dragon coming to save us, and we all have to follow, and even the beasts will fight for the Dragon. I don't know whether they've arrested him yet or not. 'Tis likely; the Ghealdanin would not put up long with that kind of talk."
Masema, Perrin thought wonderingly. It's bloody Masema.
  #72  
Old 09-02-2009, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FelixPax
Huh? Weird Harold, I'm not sure what your asking me here at all.

...

What I'm still attempting to figure out, deduce, is which particular Forsaken, has Verin met and/or take orders from over the course of the books.
I was asking what Elayne's unexpected presence at Falme has to do with Suroth issuing a Carte Blanche much later after she had risen from a mid-level admisinstrator to rally the forces of the Return and command the re-invasion at Tanchico.

The answer to which Forsaken Verin is, or has been, taking orders from is NONE because Verin is not a darkfriend or even particularly evil.

Verin is weird enough to drive Masema (or anyone elese) crazier than he was when we first met him, but it wasn't any deliberate action on her part.

My point about the Carte Blanche is that it is an anonynous/bearer warrant and there is no direct proof that Suroth ever knew who it was for. Her "control-freakiness" is irrelevant if some Forsaken handed her to document and said, "Sign this." In that circumstance, she would sign without even reading whatever she was told to sign.

Since there is no name on the Carte Blanche it is no proof of cooperation (or even just a tenuous connection) between Suroth and Masema. It could havecome into Masema's possession the same way it came into Perrin's; by by being discovered in someone's desk.
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  #73  
Old 09-02-2009, 03:16 PM
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Its possible that the Prophet stole the warrent. If it was a criminal trial I doubt if it would pass "beyond reasonable doubt" but on the balance of probabilities I think you could argue that in the absence of any other candidates its what happened.

I agree that Suroth would sign anything a forsaken ordered her to sign but whether it came from Suroth or a forsaken its not the sort of thing that you give out to just anyone. If you give it to your average joe wetlander what is he going to do with it? Demand a lot of money and an armed escort to help guard it? Thats hardly going to shake the pillars of heaven for either a forsaken or Suroth.

I can only see it be useful for a player in the series such as say the Whitecloaks or a powerful noble or military commander. Now the Whitecloaks seemed to have their own arrangement and if it was the Whitecloaks it would have only been given to either the head of the Hand of the Light or Valda.

The Whitecloask are not on good terms with the Prophet and I could see a Whitecloak camp being overrun by the mob but surely if either the head inquisitor or Valda where there they would take the warrent with them when the fled.

The Queen of Ghealdan was subservient to Masema before Perrin came along. She literally threw herself at Perrin to sign up with Rand and gain a patron. one could argue that she had been in bed with the Seanchan and did not like the experience so wanted a way out but if she has the Seanchan as a patron why take all the abuse from Masema?

I can't really think of any other major group in that area of the Westlands that would have either the political or military influence worth the effort other that Masema.
  #74  
Old 09-02-2009, 03:43 PM
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Weird Harold Weird Harold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
I agree that Suroth would sign anything a forsaken ordered her to sign but whether it came from Suroth or a forsaken its not the sort of thing that you give out to just anyone.
Actually, it's the sort of thing you give to a trio of novices sent in pursuit of a BA Koven.

It isn't he kind of thing you give to someone who has power or influence in their own right, it's the kind of thing you give to a secret agent/agitator who might get caught up in a sweep of the group/leader he's been manipulating.

It's also the kind of thing you just don't throw in the fire if the original owner suffers a mischief.

Masema is too crazy to be a reliable co-conspirator, but he's and ideal candidate for being manipulated by unscrupulous underlings, Like "Hari'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encyclopedia WOT
Hari
A thug who works for the Prophet in Ghealdan.

Physical Description
He is narrow-eyed with a thrusting nose. (TPoD,Ch7)
Chronology
  • Hari leads a group of Dragonsworn who accost Maighdin and her party. Perrin and his party drive them off. Perrin sends Hari back to Masema with a message that killing will not be tolerated. (TPoD,Ch7)
  • Hari is present while Perrin and his party meet with Masema. (TPoD,Ch30)
  • Hari accompanies Masema to Perrin's camp and helps torture the Shaido prisoners. (CoT,Ch27)
Frankly, I'd expect the Shadow to plant a DF agitator -- like Hari -- in Masema's inner circle and give him a get out of jail free card, more than I'd expect anyone to trust Masema with such a document.
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  #75  
Old 09-02-2009, 03:54 PM
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Anything is possible but surely RJ would have given us a hint or some clue if it was not meant to be Masema?

I agree that the prophey has some pretty unpleasant people working with him. Its possible to be bad to the bone but not serve the Shadow but the law of averages suggest that there are ast least some darkfriends attatched to Masema.

Perhaps we will have more info in the next book(s). Failing that I doubt if we will ever know for certain.

I would disagree that Masema is too unstable to be a reliable co-conspirator. Yes his mental state means that his uses are very limited. He is a bull in a china shop, subtle is not in his volabulary. Saying that if you want him to raise hell in a certain location he could be useful.

One would have to keep an eye on him and one would need to be careful not to underestimate him or most definatly don't fully trust him. He is crazy but not stupid. He stikes me a bit like a WWII night area bombing raid that the RAF carried out over Germany. Unleash him on an area and it will go up in smoke, all be it a lot of damage could be done that you did not intend
  #76  
Old 09-02-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
Anything is possible but surely RJ would have given us a hint or some clue if it was not meant to be Masema?
That's just it. RJ did leave enough inconsistencies Masema's actions and those of his associates to cast doubt on the obvious interpretation of the spies reports.

Masuri was adamant that Masema should be put down like a Mad Dog, but she's later seen going into his headquarters. Masema is paranoid about meeting with any channeler so why would he consent to meet with an Aes Sedai that his spies probably know wants him dead.

Isn't it more likely that Masuri is meeting with someone else in Masema's headquaters?

That's just one alternative that makes more sense than the obvious implication in that whole story line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
I would disagree that Masema is too unstable to be a reliable co-conspirator. Yes his mental state means that his uses are very limited. He is a bull in a china shop, subtle is not in his volabulary. Saying that if you want him to raise hell in a certain location he could be useful.
Masema is easily manipulated. Elayne and Nyneave played to his prejudices and turned their simple request for transportation into a holy quest to provide them with a boat. They did much the same thing to Galad, but using an appeal to family responsibilities insteadof playing to his prejudices.

It would be far better to have someone sane -- or at least rational -- to keep Masema on track by whispering in his ear to counteract attempted manipulations by others. Trusting Masema to stay on track for even simple mayhem is far riskier than having a manipulator in his entourage.

I'd have to re-read the various encounters with Masema as the Prophet, but I'm pretty sure that there was some minor toady trying to "protect the Prophet" from having to deal with "minor details." That kind of "organization" tends to form around a leader who doesn't have a very strong grasp on reality and is easily taken with the importance of petitions that appeal to his current version of reality.

In many ways, Masema is like the hapless character in an old movie trying to follow the contradictory instructions of a pair of twins he keeps running into singly or a Jekyl/Hyde character who keeps changing minds and personality to issue contradictory orders.
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