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  #321  
Old 09-03-2009, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistrum
Isn't this what I've been saying all along?
But you also said clothing wasn't art...and it can be.

Besides Armor did serve a somewhat important purpose in addition to flaunting wealth.
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  #322  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:05 PM
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Here is what I have learned:

Sini and Camel are fashion socialists in the sense that they believe that marketing and labels serve no purpose but to differentiate the wealthy from the not-so-wealthy. While this mildly surprises me coming from Camel, Im absolutely SHOCKED that Sinistrum is a socialist.

I mean, isn't the very core of capitalism creating a need for a product that people will buy thereby increasing your financial worth? Isn't this epitomized by designer fashion? Is decrying this very paragon of capitalistic process not a rail against that very system? And if you are railing against capitalism, there can only be one conclusion about your philosophy...

You, sirs, are SOCIALISTS!!

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  #323  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Here is what I have learned:

Sini and Camel are fashion socialists in the sense that they believe that marketing and labels serve no purpose but to differentiate the wealthy from the not-so-wealthy. While this mildly surprises me coming from Camel, Im absolutely SHOCKED that Sinistrum is a socialist.

I mean, isn't the very core of capitalism creating a need for a product that people will buy thereby increasing your financial worth? Isn't this epitomized by designer fashion? Is decrying this very paragon of capitalistic process not a rail against that very system? And if you are railing against capitalism, there can only be one conclusion about your philosophy...

You, sirs, are SOCIALISTS!!

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  #324  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:11 PM
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And once again Ivhon misses the point. I have no problem with wealth. I have a problem with ostentacious displays of that are used to conjure up elitest attitudes that only have foundation in the subjective minds of those who cling to them.
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  #325  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistrum
And once again Ivhon misses the point. I have no problem with wealth. I have a problem with ostentacious displays of that are used to conjure up elitest attitudes that only have foundation in the subjective minds of those who cling to them.
So you support a society separated into distinct social/economic classes but also one where it is impossible to determine which class a person belongs to based on appearance?

Is it a ST: TNG type society where all the aliens dress identically?
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  #326  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Here is what I have learned:

Sini and Camel are fashion socialists in the sense that they believe that marketing and labels serve no purpose but to differentiate the wealthy from the not-so-wealthy. While this mildly surprises me coming from Camel, Im absolutely SHOCKED that Sinistrum is a socialist.

I mean, isn't the very core of capitalism creating a need for a product that people will buy thereby increasing your financial worth? Isn't this epitomized by designer fashion? Is decrying this very paragon of capitalistic process not a rail against that very system? And if you are railing against capitalism, there can only be one conclusion about your philosophy...

You, sirs, are SOCIALISTS!!

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  #327  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Here is what I have learned:

Sini and Camel are fashion socialists in the sense that they believe that marketing and labels serve no purpose but to differentiate the wealthy from the not-so-wealthy. While this mildly surprises me coming from Camel, Im absolutely SHOCKED that Sinistrum is a socialist.
LOL, excellent!

I wouldn't go so far as to say that labels serve no purpose but to differentiate the wealthy from the not-so-wealthy -- I can think of a dozen examples where buying labels are appropriate -- but I do think that it's elitist to assume that the more something costs, the "better" it is. My issue with this topic has more to do with minimizing what I view as wasteful spending (I could buy four equally good looking pair of shoes for $500) than it has to do with equality.
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  #328  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sei'taer
You forgot to say that you learned I was a redneck...
This knowledge is instinctual, not learned.
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  #329  
Old 09-04-2009, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
So you support a society separated into distinct social/economic classes but also one where it is impossible to determine which class a person belongs to based on appearance?
I'm not sure I can see the bad part about this.
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  #330  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JSUCamel
LOL, excellent!

but I do think that it's elitist to assume that the more something costs, the "better" it is.
However, it is true that you get what you pay for--up to a certain point. In my experience, Payless shoes and Wal-Mart clothes (and to a lesser extent Target) are simply poorer quality and don't last as long. The same is true for lower cost versions of name brand things, like Nikes. I can buy $30 Nikes, but they're going to hurt my feet and they're going to fall apart much faster than the $80 pair.

But this is only true up to a certain point. I realize everyone probably knows this--that at a certain point the increase in price is solely a function of branding and not quality. I could buy $200 Nike shoes, but since I will replace them in six months anyway, why wouldn't I buy the $80 pair?
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  #331  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:51 AM
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I was always a big fan of New Balance for running shoes. Or Asics. Both of them don't have the cool kid card of approval but when it came to running, they hurt the least IMHO.

Regardless of which side of the argument you are on here, you should never skimp on running shoes, eyewear or birth control.
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  #332  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian
However, it is true that you get what you pay for--up to a certain point. In my experience, Payless shoes and Wal-Mart clothes (and to a lesser extent Target) are simply poorer quality and don't last as long. The same is true for lower cost versions of name brand things, like Nikes. I can buy $30 Nikes, but they're going to hurt my feet and they're going to fall apart much faster than the $80 pair.

But this is only true up to a certain point. I realize everyone probably knows this--that at a certain point the increase in price is solely a function of branding and not quality. I could buy $200 Nike shoes, but since I will replace them in six months anyway, why wouldn't I buy the $80 pair?
Cuz Dr. Jones in his $1.5m McMansion has a pair and he's ALWAYS rubbing it in that you only have a Master's and drive an Explorer while he drives a Porche Cayenne. You're gonna show that asshole SOB that you can at least wear the same shoes!
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  #333  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Davian93
I was always a big fan of New Balance for running shoes. Or Asics. Both of them don't have the cool kid card of approval but when it came to running, they hurt the least IMHO.

Regardless of which side of the argument you are on here, you should never skimp on running shoes, eyewear or birth control.
Add toilet paper to that list, for sure. Nothing worse than getting stuck with single-ply sandpaper.
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  #334  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Add toilet paper to that list, for sure. Nothing worse than getting stuck with single-ply sandpaper.
I completely agree...nothing worse than single ply. You'd be better off using newspaper at that point.
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  #335  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian
But this is only true up to a certain point. I realize everyone probably knows this--that at a certain point the increase in price is solely a function of branding and not quality. I could buy $200 Nike shoes, but since I will replace them in six months anyway, why wouldn't I buy the $80 pair?
Yes, there is a point at which it turns from quality to branding. And that's exactly what I'm saying -- there's no good reason other than what Sini has said to buy the $200 pair over the $80 pair, because once you get to this point, it becomes a function of branding. And the prices change, depending on the person's needs (custom shoes for weird feet, etc) and the clothing item (suits cost more than shoes, etc).

Absolutely.

Quote:
Cuz Dr. Jones in his $1.5m McMansion has a pair and he's ALWAYS rubbing it in that you only have a Master's and drive an Explorer while he drives a Porche Cayenne. You're gonna show that asshole SOB that you can at least wear the same shoes!
Thanks for making Sini's point :P
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  #336  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Cuz Dr. Jones in his $1.5m McMansion has a pair and he's ALWAYS rubbing it in that you only have a Master's and drive an Explorer while he drives a Porche Cayenne. You're gonna show that asshole SOB that you can at least wear the same shoes!
An Explorer? Way too cheap for my taste.
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  #337  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:38 PM
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~smacks head on desk~

I have ONLY been making the argument that more expensive is better as it relates to QUALITY. Because I would much rather invest in a well-made, well-cut suit that makes me look and feel like a million dollars and know that it's going to last for years with good care and maintenance, than I would spend a third of the price for something that doesn't look good, makes me itch and is going to fall apart even if it is dry-cleaned.

Sini, art is obviously subjective. You're entitled to think that fashion isn't art, and most of the time I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm just pointing out that there is a distinction between high fashion and low fashion - and it's not actually the elitism you're referring to - it's the reality of what's wearable and what's not. It's like the difference between the leather-bound, gold-leafed copy of tEotW and the cheap paperback copy we can buy at the bookstore. One is not available widely, and isn't really practical for daily use. The other option of course, is the more expensive hardcover book. It's prohibitively expensive, but it is better quality than the paperback, and will last a heck of a lot longer.

I just don't see why this isn't a point we can agree on!

I have brand loyalty to certain brands sure. I covet things all the time. Would I spend $1000 on a pair of shoes? Not so much. Hell, I'm considering telling my boyfriend that I don't want an engagement ring (not 100% true) because they're so damn expensive. I'd rather he spent the money on something better, like us getting a house a month earlier. But then, I'm a cost-per-usage type of girl. If my purse costs $200, I'll buy it if I know it's exactly what I want, fits all my criteria, will last more than one season and I'll use it every day. To me, that's practical.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree this time.
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  #338  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara
I have ONLY been making the argument that more expensive is better as it relates to QUALITY. Because I would much rather invest in a well-made, well-cut suit that makes me look and feel like a million dollars and know that it's going to last for years with good care and maintenance, than I would spend a third of the price for something that doesn't look good, makes me itch and is going to fall apart even if it is dry-cleaned.
You're not thinking of The Samuel Vimes "Boots" Theory Of Socio-Economic Unfairness, are you?

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

"Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

"But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

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Last edited by Uno; 09-04-2009 at 11:26 PM.
 


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