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  #41  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse
that the tid-bit BS is referring to is Isam.
Unless you can narrow it down a lot further, Slayer/Isam is discussed far too much to be the clue, IMHO.
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  #42  
Old 11-12-2009, 07:12 PM
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Default Teaching the Windfinders?

Elayne's (bad) bargain for the Bowl of the Winds still hasn't been met except for the few AS under Elayne's control and at least one of them has run away from the task (besides Nyneave not going back to Caemlyn to resume teaching them.)

Now that Egwene has reunited the Tower, the issue is going to be raised in the Hall because there is no more reason to stall.

I don't know of many, if any discussions about the consequences of that bargain bar two or three right after the Deal was made. Those quickly faded into hamster feed so Brandon isn't likely to have come across them; they were usually short discussions ending with RAFO.
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  #43  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Traditonally, "Elves" like the Aelfar (sp) of Norse tradition are burned, or sickened by "Cold Iron" but not by Steel (or "Hot Iron.")

Perhaps it is somewhat similar to the effect of drinking phosphoric acid and Coca Cola which only contains phosphoric acid.
Not that I know. In Norse spirituality (which was pagan), elves were sometimes understood as a race of fair beings attendant on the god Freyr, and were objects of worship.

In Nordic folklore (which was Christian), "elves" was mostly just a generic name for any number of "underground people" (underjordiske), and steel, not iron, provides protection against these beings, as did crosses, Biblical verses, the ringing of church bells, and so on. Steel somehow binds these creatures from doing harm, which is why you might put steel objects in cradles to prevent them from swapping infants with changlings.
  #44  
Old 11-13-2009, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uno
Not that I know. In Norse spirituality (which was pagan), ...

In Nordic folklore (which was Christian),
Sounds like you've got a more direct understanding of that region's folklore/history. I'm working from folklorists' commentaries on norse/nordic derived fiction -- and that derivitive fiction.

The descriptions you gave tells me that the Pagan versions is the source folklore -- it includes distinct races of fair folk for underground; "Dwarf" "Gnome" and "Kobold" cognates.

The Aelfar were only divided between "Losaelfar," or light elves and their dark cousins.

The distinction between Steel and Iron was depicted as being on the order of the difference in magical properties etween the various types of Aluminum Oxide crystals -- Beryl, Sapphire, Ruby, et al.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Sounds like you've got a more direct understanding of that region's folklore/history. I'm working from folklorists' commentaries on norse/nordic derived fiction -- and that derivitive fiction.

The descriptions you gave tells me that the Pagan versions is the source folklore -- it includes distinct races of fair folk for underground; "Dwarf" "Gnome" and "Kobold" cognates.

The Aelfar were only divided between "Losaelfar," or light elves and their dark cousins.

The distinction between Steel and Iron was depicted as being on the order of the difference in magical properties etween the various types of Aluminum Oxide crystals -- Beryl, Sapphire, Ruby, et al.
Well, we don't actually know very much about what people in pagan Scandinavia thought about these things, but traces of their beliefs lived on in folklore into the twentieth century, that's true.

Basically, the underground people belonged to the untamed world beyond the safe hearth of human society. One may therefore understand steel--a human made substance--as a symbol of a tamed and ordered world. For much the same reason, bundles of grain were hung up around Yuletide, the most supernaturally dangerous time of the year to keep these influences at bay. Like steel, grain grown in ground broken by the plow is a potent symbol of the human order.

That's admittedly speculation, and I don't know how old these beliefs actually are. A few centuries, certainly. I can't recall ever hearing anyone using iron to ward off the invisible forces, but I seem to remember that runes must not be carved by any metal implements lest they lose their potency, so it's quite possible that either iron or steel would do in a pinch, at least in the pre-Christian era. Runes will also lose their force if exposed to sunlight, and a number of trolls and such are also averse to the Sun, as is well known.

I also think there was some belief in certain locales that iron objects must not be placed in coffins, as they might upset the spirits of the dead, but that's a belief from the Christian era, as the pagans deposited all sorts of metal items as mortuary offerings.

At any rate, you've got to use base metals as protection against these beings. Precious metals are obviously useless since the underground and mountain people were known to have hoards of gold and silver.

Anyway, in spite of these ramblings, my point is simply that I'm unfamiliar with the notion that the powers are more averse to iron than they are to steel. If anything, it's steel they have a big problem with.

Last edited by Uno; 11-13-2009 at 01:16 AM.
 

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