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  #41  
Old 11-29-2009, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I don't think there's any evidence to support the Dark One's existence being responsible for circular time. Not even a hint, really.
Add in RJ's previous comments of this Age being no different than any other when it comes to the Last Battle being simply the Last Battle for the 3rd Age, not all time.

Linear time is a non-starter.
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I don't think there's any evidence to support the Dark One's existence being responsible for circular time. Not even a hint, really.
Agreed.

If this has happened many many times why does th DO repeat the same mistakes over and over again?

seriously, The Great Lord must rmember all the previous iterations of the light v dark battle(never liked that description, too eddings) and should be able to counter everything.

Anyway, back on topic I think the important part of this chapter appears to be that Rand shows up in the room under his own steam. As one poster said it's the same room as TEOTW but this time he is not summoned, if anything Ishamel/Moridin does not want him there...
  #43  
Old 11-29-2009, 05:25 PM
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The only thing I took 100% from this meeting between Rand and Moridin is Moridin understands that the DO winning means no "eternal life"...it means the end of everything. And he believes none of the other Forsaken understand this important point. They believe if the DO wins, they will have eternity to rule over the reconstructed world, while Moridin realizes it will be over. Just...over.

Now the question is...does Moridin want the DO to succeed in ending everything? I am not convinced of this yet. To be honest, I think Moridin will betray the DO in the end to help Rand save the world. I have a hard time accepting this, but I LIKE Moridin at this point.
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  #44  
Old 11-29-2009, 05:34 PM
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He has always been my favorite bad guy. I like him even more after this book.
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2009, 08:17 PM
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Sorry to backtrack a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Blaire View Post
Unless it is the Dragon Soul's healing of the Bore each time that gives it the "weakness/thinness" allowing it to be found the next turning...
Then that would beg the question of how the Great Lord almost escaped the first time.
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  #46  
Old 11-29-2009, 08:40 PM
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I don't think there's any evidence to support the Dark One's existence being responsible for circular time. Not even a hint, really.
I'm not so sure. Example.

It's the Age of Legends. Everyone is all Renaissance, knowledge is everything, all that good stuff. The pattern forces it's favorite lackey, LTT, to touch the DO with the Power to seal him away. Saidin is tainted, the guys go crazy, end of an Age. We don't know how the rest of the Ages end, but what if the Creator uses the DO as a catalyst for the transition of Ages. AKA the DO is the reason for circular vs. linear time? Just a thought.

Quote:
If this has happened many many times why does th DO repeat the same mistakes over and over again?
I like to think of it kind of like Bill Murray in Groundhog's day. The DO is not quite sure what to do to get free, and not even 100% sure if he can, but is trying whatever the hell he thinks he should to make this time more successful than last time.

Also, nothing is the books makes me think the DO is somehow as powerful as the Creator. All evidence points to the Creator being more powerful, and the DO being a sort of annoying brat who he imprisons to keep him from messing up his favorite toy (the Pattern).

As for Rand destroying the Pattern killing the DO, RJ has said in several interviews that the amount of the OP required to kill the DO would destroy the Pattern.
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  #47  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AbbeyRoad View Post
I like to think of it kind of like Bill Murray in Groundhog's day. The DO is not quite sure what to do to get free, and not even 100% sure if he can, but is trying whatever the hell he thinks he should to make this time more successful than last time.
I always figured that in most ages, especially ones where people didn't know the DO existed, he didn't have any hope of escaping. Ages like the last one (or at least the end of the last one), and this one are exciting opportunities for the DO.

ETA: Clarifying that in the turning of the wheel, in one of those ages where he is forgotten, he has one of his best chances to escape. (i.e. AoL)

Last edited by Trutino; 11-29-2009 at 10:26 PM.
  #48  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Tel'aran'rhiod is not a reflection of all worlds; the other worlds all have different reflections.
Reflections are mirror world phenomena. There is only one Tel'aran'rhiod. It is the third constant.
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  #49  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Belazamon View Post
Then that would beg the question of how the Great Lord almost escaped the first time.
the WoT version of Pandora?
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  #50  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Trutino View Post
I always figured that in most ages, especially ones where people didn't know the DO existed, he didn't have any hope of escaping. Ages like the last one (or at least the end of the last one), and this one are exciting opportunities for the DO.

ETA: Clarifying that in the turning of the wheel, in one of those ages where he is forgotten, he has one of his best chances to escape. (i.e. AoL)
In those Ages where he has been forgotten, Channeling has also largely been forgotten and thus nobody can drill into his prison to give him a tentacle hold to break his prison with.

Only at the end of the Age when Cahneling is rediscovered and human greed starts looking for even more power, will the DO gain the tentacle hold he needs to bring about the next Third Age and the conditions necessary for T'G.
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  #51  
Old 11-30-2009, 04:10 AM
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I have a hard time accepting this, but I LIKE Moridin at this point.
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  #52  
Old 11-30-2009, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Frenzy View Post
Reflections are mirror world phenomena. There is only one Tel'aran'rhiod. It is the third constant.
It's not that simple. Tel'aran'rhiod reflects the world that our characters live in, which is why they're able to do stuff like spy on Elaida's message box. In the other worlds, these details will be different; therefore, they have different reflections. All of the dreams come together in the GOI, but Tel'aran'rhiod is different. And RJ says they're separate from each other.
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  #53  
Old 11-30-2009, 02:52 PM
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Default When we really got into it...

We decided (iirc) that when speaking about T'A'R as the all encompassing unseen world that includes T'A'R, the GOI, and even the skimming space (although including the skimming space was always sketchy), we would just say "Unseen World" as to that which exists between all worlds: Mirror, Parallel, Perpendicular; then, we'd use T'A'R to refer to the specific non permanent reflection for each world.

I think Verin's understanding of the relationship between all was much less informed than ours and her reference to T'A'R being the third constant...is a bit lacking, if Verin was speaking of the reflection of this world, or the individual reflection of each world. Instead, if we view Verin's use of T'A'R as the third constant and think about it as the Unseen World as that which surrounds all worlds and connects all worlds, it makes more sense.

Last edited by Tamyrlin; 11-30-2009 at 02:56 PM.
 

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