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View Poll Results: Lews Therin
Lews Therin's memories are real, but the "voice" is an illusion subconsciously created by Rand. 43 75.44%
The LTT in Rands head is the same as the LTT from the AoL, and can think/act, independent of Rand. 14 24.56%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #81  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
A Construct is, in most ways, a coping mechanism to avoid insanity. In other ways, it is a symptom of insanity.
Still too cryptic.

What you mean is that Rand could not bring himself to identify with the memories of an insane murder, so he created a separate identity to which to ascribe those memories (and, not coincidentally, any other thoughts or emotions with which he wasn't comfortable). But the very act of dissociating himself with Lews Therin, who was simply Rand himself, was an act of madness.

In effect, Rand drove himself mad by trying not to be mad.
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  #82  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian
Still too cryptic.

What you mean is that Rand could not bring himself to identify with the memories of an insane murder, so he created a separate identity to which to ascribe those memories (and, not coincidentally, any other thoughts or emotions with which he wasn't comfortable). But the very act of dissociating himself with Lews Therin, who was simply Rand himself, was an act of madness.
The act was a cause of madness as well - the act could also be seen as a symptom, but it's more of a cause in this case than anything else, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC
In effect, Rand drove himself mad by trying not to be mad.
Like I said before, this is what happens when you allow your subconscious to sort out your issues.
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  #83  
Old 11-05-2009, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian
In effect, Rand drove himself mad by trying not to be mad.
PERFECT. Thank you.
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  #84  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:54 PM
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Bump, since more noobs are coming in and all.
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  #85  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
In effect, Rand drove himself mad by trying not to be mad.
Well that's just mad!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
'real' theory DOES NOT account for the fact that the 'voice' was created due to Rand's psychological problems. If you want a theory that has everything, then go for construct.
that's a misleading statement. If the voice was 'real,' then it wasn't "created" by anything, let alone pych issues. The voice was the product of the soul's last strong imprint of pesonality being deluded by the taint's worsening of it's judgement into believing itself seperate from the soul's current current personality imprint.
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  #86  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bloodpath
that's a misleading statement.
No it isn't. The 'real' theory doesn't account for it (meaning they don't believe it).
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  #87  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:37 AM
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to say that one person is not accounting for something that may not exist is an extremely interesting statement in and of itself.

But what did you think of the rest of my post?
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  #88  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bloodpath
that's a misleading statement. If the voice was 'real,' then it wasn't "created" by anything, let alone pych issues. The voice was the product of the soul's last strong imprint of pesonality being deluded by the taint's worsening of it's judgement into believing itself seperate from the soul's current current personality imprint.
I like to think LTT's voice is the persona created by LTT living his life.
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  #89  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:55 AM
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Exactly. And because Rand didn't accept the voice,and or LTT didn't realize yet that Ilyena would be reborn again, Rand didn't integrate.
So that's why Rand kept being insane.
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  #90  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:56 AM
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Lews Therin always knew that Ilyena would be reborn. He just didn't apply that knowledge.
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  #91  
Old 11-08-2009, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Lews Therin always knew that Ilyena would be reborn. He just didn't apply that knowledge.
Well, he was Aes Sedai, you know.
  #92  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Lews Therin always knew that Ilyena would be reborn. He just didn't apply that knowledge.
Knowing doesn't equal understanding. Everyone knows they'll be reborn, but few apply the current situation to the future.

A sociopath knowing that going to prison for murder as punishment is one thing. Realizing that prison is also saving the lives of those he would have killed in the future is quite another.

Similarly, knowing that one will be reborn eventually is one thing. Knowing that rebirth gives you another chance at love, laughter and tears is a much larger leap. It required Rand to stop being thinking of his identity as Dragon as being about him, and realize that his identity as Dragon is about helping others -- not just those around him today, but those in the future that he will never meet.
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  #93  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSUCamel
Knowing doesn't equal understanding.
That's what I said. He knew, but he didn't apply the knowledge.

Bumped, for moar noobs.
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  #94  
Old 05-25-2010, 03:08 AM
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Bringing this to the top just because I wanted to post about the Lews Therin discussion I'm having at tor.com, and I didn't want to start a new thread. It's been fun; I don't think these people quite know the meaning of 'longpost' yet. There are a few hard core real'ers there, but I've made some converts. That's always exciting. My first post is #172. It's on Leigh Butler's review of the chapter in The Path of Daggers where Lews Therin comes back from vacation, so I figured that would be a good place to start a debate.
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  #95  
Old 05-25-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
There are a few hard core real'ers there, but I've made some converts. That's always exciting.
Ah, claiming to be a Missionary not an Intellectual?

Looks like you, you have quite a few doubters at TOR on this topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freelancer
I'm happier that someone is backing off the Elayne-bashing than whether Terez27 will ever come around to the truth that Lews Therin is real.

Ironically Terez, on this one topic of L.T.T., I'm in base agreement, yet I also do think Sodas view of point is valid as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodas
I feel that LTT is the personality created by the Dragon Soul when it lived in the Age of Legends. Rand is the personality created by the Dragon Soul to live now. But they are the same man, the same Soul.

Think of it as different faces of the same gem.
For example, did Lew Therin have a hang up about killing women who threaten his life, that Rand al'Thor and most Two Rivers men have?

I suspect that was one difference expressed, in the Dragon Reborn's personality then and now--even though the soul is the very same.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez27
I always assumed that the popularity of the theory would depend on our arguments alone.
Isn't that a White Ajah point of view, "on our arguments alone"?

Yet strangely there seems to be an omission in the role that the sheer number of postings plays in attempting to beat people into kneeling to your very own point of view on multiple boards.

If excellent arguments were all that matters, for 'popularity' and 'truth', shouldn't Terez have posted a few less times?

Is Terez's real motto, if I can't beat'em I will out advertise them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez27
I get frustrated more easily arguing Gawyn because we're going to find out soon enough one way or the other.
Or is it because, you don't now feel as strongly for your own prior theory, of "Gawyn Will Kill Rand" as you once did?
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Last edited by FelixPax; 05-25-2010 at 08:05 PM.
  #96  
Old 05-26-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Bringing this to the top just because I wanted to post about the Lews Therin discussion I'm having at tor.com, and I didn't want to start a new thread. It's been fun; I don't think these people quite know the meaning of 'longpost' yet. There are a few hard core real'ers there, but I've made some converts. That's always exciting. My first post is #172. It's on Leigh Butler's review of the chapter in The Path of Daggers where Lews Therin comes back from vacation, so I figured that would be a good place to start a debate.
Good lawd. I tried to read through the comments to get where the fun started, and I think I pulled something reading through the "Blackberry Bush" nonsense. Either that or the idiots made me facepalm one too many times.

My head hurts. Where'd I put the beer?

Wait, I'm at work.

Where'd I put the whiskey.
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  #97  
Old 05-26-2010, 09:57 AM
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LOL, yeah the blackberry argument was ridiculous. There were only a couple of people that were arguing it was Tar Valon, though...most of them have more sense than that.
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