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  #21  
Old 05-27-2016, 10:22 PM
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Woo! Go History degree!

That has always fascinated me - trying to think of all the different possibilities, and solutions to problems. Hopefully I'll be able to learn more about it, if I ever do end up getting into the military.

Can you believe that it's been nearly two years since I applied!? And I was supposed to be gone now, too.
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2016, 07:35 AM
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That's a rare English slip for yks in the title. Just mentioning it because Theoryland is boring, and because yks can usually pass for a native speaker. (It's always "the Pentagon" unless it's used as an adjective, like "Pentagon aides".)
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2016, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
That's a rare English slip for yks in the title.
Wouldn't an English slip be called "knickers"?

Of course, it's possible that yks did it on purpose; this seems to be a topic that requires short, simple words combined with simplified grammar.
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2016, 09:01 AM
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Sometimes headlines do drop grammatically necessary articles, but this just reads as wrong/weird. Perhaps another native would be willing to argue that point; this is Theoryland after all.
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2016, 10:26 AM
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Is it a language thing, though? Isn't it more an American thing? If Brits, Aussies, Canadians etc. commonly leave the article out, then yks still passes for a native. So how does the rest of the English speaking world refer to the American Pentagon?
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2016, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Sometimes headlines do drop grammatically necessary articles, but this just reads as wrong/weird. Perhaps another native would be willing to argue that point; this is Theoryland after all.
It has a feel similar to "in Russia...". Whether or not that was intentional is another question, but this is yks, and a similar splicing of the Russia joke would be rather fitting considering the topic.
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2016, 04:29 AM
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Well, yeah, but that explanation makes sense, which often is no fun at all.
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  #28  
Old 05-30-2016, 02:59 AM
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Safety and Security are both sides of the same coin. A lot of the same principles apply but the end goal is different. For nukes, safety would be making sure they don't go off accidentally through risk mitigation like making the bomb case more secure and the trigger mechanism less twitchy so to speak. It would also include things like practice exercises in loading and unloading both silos and bombers to make sure procedures work and the crews aren't at risk. Even things like teaching proper lifting techniques and ergonomics fall under "safety"

Security would be the prevention of tampering, having armed guards, patrols, CCTV systems, a fence line, concentric perimeter defenses, a hardened silo that can survive a nearby first strike attempt, etc.

Both come down to the concept of risk management and 99% of what I do every single day at my job is risk assessment and risk management regardless of whether I'm focused on safety or security.
Safety and Security can also have a bit of a conflict - let's say you have followed all the Security regulations, but thereby your Safety procedures become ridiculously cumbersome.

I forgot to add the Q for quality that's often added in the acronym; at least... in the early stages of projects, during production/construction the Q is its own department usually.

The best clusterfucks happen when somebody bypasses the security (usually in order to speed things up), thereby 80% of the cases messing up both the safety and quality.

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Woo! Go History degree!

That has always fascinated me - trying to think of all the different possibilities, and solutions to problems. Hopefully I'll be able to learn more about it, if I ever do end up getting into the military.

Can you believe that it's been nearly two years since I applied!? And I was supposed to be gone now, too.
History degrees rock! you can do almost anything with a history degree. I'm about to transition form Document Control (=archiving) into Data Analysis. Which is the same technique as statistical historiography, really. Booyah!

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It has a feel similar to "in Russia...". Whether or not that was intentional is another question, but this is yks, and a similar splicing of the Russia joke would be rather fitting considering the topic.
this was indeed the reason. Well, and the fact that I'd only had one cup of coffee at that point in the day when I posted it
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  #29  
Old 05-30-2016, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
Well, and the fact that I'd only had one cup of coffee at that point in the day when I posted it
Should that be filed under breach of:
A. safety?
B. security?
C. quality?
D. none of the above?
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  #30  
Old 05-30-2016, 04:35 AM
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Should that be filed under breach of:
A. safety?
B. security?
C. quality?
D. none of the above?
I think it would be either health or environment, so D.

Would it be correct to define security as safety from intentional harm? And in this I define playing with fire type of behaviour as intentionally harmful.

And as the safety approach is entirely dependent on what one wants to be safe from, it is completely normal for safety protocols to be in conflict.
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  #31  
Old 05-30-2016, 05:57 AM
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<snip>
Cheers. Guess I'll just have to keep trying to sneak some more certifications through my current job then
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  #32  
Old 05-30-2016, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Should that be filed under breach of:
A. safety?
B. security?
C. quality?
D. none of the above?
quality. Since neither safety nor security of any person or institution would be compromised by omitting the "the"; however the quality of the title is sub-par.

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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
I think it would be either health or environment, so D.

Would it be correct to define security as safety from intentional harm? And in this I define playing with fire type of behaviour as intentionally harmful.

And as the safety approach is entirely dependent on what one wants to be safe from, it is completely normal for safety protocols to be in conflict.
Unless someone would get a serious physical/mental reaction as a result of the missing "the", it's not health. And since it doesn't influence the environment in any way, it's not environment.

By and large, yes intentional actions which could cause harm. Whether the harm was intended or not, that's a whole different topic: then it becomes a question of sabotage versus incompetence/ negligence/ thoughtlessness.
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  #33  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
quality. Since neither safety nor security of any person or institution would be compromised by omitting the "the"; however the quality of the title is sub-par.



Unless someone would get a serious physical/mental reaction as a result of the missing "the", it's not health. And since it doesn't influence the environment in any way, it's not environment.
I was refering to the cause of the missing the (and I think the 'in' should be 'at' if you included 'the' in the sentence). If lack of coffee has such effects on you, it must be a case of health. Or it could be that an environment without coffee is harmful to people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
By and large, yes intentional actions which could cause harm. Whether the harm was intended or not, that's a whole different topic: then it becomes a question of sabotage versus incompetence/ negligence/ thoughtlessness.
How does the topic become different for sabotage? Flawed security is flawed security.
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  #34  
Old 05-30-2016, 08:39 AM
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I was refering to the cause of the missing the (and I think the 'in' should be 'at' if you included 'the' in the sentence). If lack of coffee has such effects on you, it must be a case of health. Or it could be that an environment without coffee is harmful to people.
ah. Yes, then it would be health. Albeit a really mild case of not being completely awake.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:53 AM
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Great example of where safety and security can clash. You have a facility that has mag-lock doors (i.e. Big electro magnets serve as locks rather than a bar or latch system)...when you lose power, the doors are unlocked as there isn't any power to the magnets. So...to secure the building, you have an issue. You can't just chain the door shut because even if no one is inside, it violates the fire code (a safety regulation) so you have to post a guard, preferably armed. One mitigation is to have a backup power source...even just an UPS but those aren't 100% reliable either so it can get messy.

I ended up pushing for and getting an entire backup generator instead since it was such an issue.

But as you say, they can definitely be in conflict at times.
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  #36  
Old 05-30-2016, 11:01 AM
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Or it could be that an environment without coffee is harmful to people.
Well, duh!
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:55 AM
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Well, duh!
You don't get to take that attitude, Gonzo.
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  #38  
Old 05-30-2016, 12:19 PM
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You don't get to take that attitude, Gonzo.
In Pentagon, attitude takes you.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Great example of where safety and security can clash. You have a facility that has mag-lock doors (i.e. Big electro magnets serve as locks rather than a bar or latch system)...when you lose power, the doors are unlocked as there isn't any power to the magnets. So...to secure the building, you have an issue. You can't just chain the door shut because even if no one is inside, it violates the fire code (a safety regulation) so you have to post a guard, preferably armed. One mitigation is to have a backup power source...even just an UPS but those aren't 100% reliable either so it can get messy.

I ended up pushing for and getting an entire backup generator instead since it was such an issue.

But as you say, they can definitely be in conflict at times.
Sounds like the problems in Jurassic Park. They should have had better contingency plans.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:15 PM
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In Pentagon, attitude takes you.
You mean the name comes from all that pent up agony and the building shape is just a coincidence?
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