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  #21  
Old 05-16-2012, 06:28 AM
Boli Boli is offline
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The Kin do not marry... it is mentioned when Elayne suggests that it would be wise to let the kin marry so they have a greater sense of place and to differenciate them from Aes Sedai.


Unfortunally it not stated one way or the other if Sul'dam marry. Damne definatly do not; and I would wager Seachan is the sort of sociaty which will kill the children of any male channelers; even if they do not Seachan siphon off all *all* who are born with the spark out of the genetic history.

If Sul'Damn never .. or rarely marry the channeling population will plummet as the only way the genes could be passed along woudl be by men who are able to learn.

Even if they do marry there is still going to be a "culling" of channeling ability; although not as great as Randland.... If having the spark is also a genetic ability they sociaity will reach a point where there ARE no dammne and Sul'Damn will only "breed" more Sul'Damn.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2012, 04:07 PM
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No, as at least part of the ability has a genetic basis. And it is precisely that part which has gotten a reduced frequency in the population as a result of the culling. So at least for a time, the rate would remain around the 1%. It might start to rise again, if channelers were having babies often enough.

I don't see what you're getting at, Gonzo. The ability is recessive. That means both parents must contribute in order for a given individual to channel. But AS are removed from the gene pool in RL and the male sparkers are also removed. That led to the culling of the population with fewer channelers in RL.

But in seanchan only sparkers (damane) are removed from the gene pool. (and male sparkers of course) So by rights they should have a higher rate than RLers but maybe not as much as the aol. The The sharans however, definitely will have a higher natural rate than the aol because in the societies, all the offspring of channelers will be able to channel. No exceptions. The aiel though, likely have rates as close to the aol as possible. Maybe a little more or a little less.
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2012, 04:22 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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In the Aiel Waste, and in Shara too, male channelers still have a decidedly shorter life span compared to what they would have had in the AOL. So that is already one factor which would limit how many children they would have: time to reproduce.

If all such issues disappeared overnight (which seems not too likely, but perhaps it will happen anyway), then there would still be a much lower frequency of channeling genes in the gene pool than there had been in the AOL. Since non-channeling genes wouldn't be selected against, these relative frequences would not change significantly, at least not in the short term. Thus, the numbers of potential channelers would remain around the 1% where they are now, rather than shooting up to the 3% mark of the AOL.
Eventually, in the very long run (centuries and millennia), because of the longer lifetime of channelers their genes would increase in frequency.
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:26 AM
Boli Boli is offline
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
In the Aiel Waste, and in Shara too, male channelers still have a decidedly shorter life span compared to what they would have had in the AOL. So that is already one factor which would limit how many children they would have: time to reproduce.
I'm pretty sure in Shara the boys are just used as "breeding stock"; Given that Genghis Khan fathered a suspected 6k-8k children in his 65 years (most would be during his 21 year reign) a 12-21 year old boy could father a *lot* of children. (even if you consider he only starts to father from 16-21 that is still a a lot of potential children.

I'm of the opion that in these "camps" the % is going to be a *lot* higher than even the AoL.

EDIT: found more infoz

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Male Ayyad are not allowed to learn to read or write, or do anything at all really. They can feed and dress themselves and that is about it. They are used to breed more female Ayyad, and as such their bloodlines are traced like horse breeding stock. Males are communally raised, called simply "the male", instead of "he". When they are sixteen they are taken from the village and are hooded and cloaked, and are matched with women who desire children, which is sometimes several. When he is twenty-one, or shows signs of channeling, he is taken from the village as if again to go breed and is instead killed and cremated.

Last edited by Boli; 05-17-2012 at 06:29 AM.
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:39 AM
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This is very left of field but one other bit of info that might support high channeling rates in Shara is Aviendha's future visions. In that the Aiel have all but been wiped out and then cannot flee to Share because of a treaty between the Raven Empire (Seanchan) and Shara.

Its not 100% conclusive the Seanchan don't really have a claim on Shara as it was not settled or ruled by Hawkwing but they do seem to be the sort to seek to rule everyone as its really for their own good that the Seanchan civilise them. If they have a treaty with Shara that suggests that Shara is simply too powerful to conquor. Powerful would equate to a big compitent army and a big core of channelers who know what they are doing.

I know its a bit of a stretch but thought I would throw it in all the same.
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  #26  
Old 05-18-2012, 05:55 PM
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In the Aiel Waste, and in Shara too, male channelers still have a decidedly shorter life span

Not male channelers, just male sparkers who have sparked i.e above 20 or so.



compared to what they would have had in the AOL. So that is already one factor which would limit how many children they would have: time to reproduce.

Depends on how many children each channeler had in the aol. As stated earlier, its an affluent civilization that probably had a low birth and death rate. Unlike present times.
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  #27  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:10 AM
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Not male channelers, just male sparkers who have sparked i.e above 20 or so.
Male channelers. In the AOL, most learners would actually have learned, which would have increased their expected life span by a factor of three or thereabouts. So, while the reduction in life span is even more severe for the sparkers, the learners also have a significant relative (and absolute, but that's less relevant here) reduction.

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compared to what they would have had in the AOL. So that is already one factor which would limit how many children they would have: time to reproduce.

Depends on how many children each channeler had in the aol. As stated earlier, its an affluent civilization that probably had a low birth and death rate. Unlike present times.
True, but with 500 years of being capable of having and raising children I would still expect the channelers to have a somewhat higher birth rate than the non-channelers who at the time had about 150 years or so.
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  #28  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:24 PM
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Male channelers. In the AOL, most learners would actually have learned, which would have increased their expected life span by a factor of three or thereabouts. So, while the reduction in life span is even more severe for the sparkers, the learners also have a significant relative (and absolute, but that's less relevant here) reduction.


True, but with 500 years of being capable of having and raising children I would still expect the channelers to have a somewhat higher birth rate than the non-channelers who at the time had about 150 years or so.
The number of children one has is usually not a function of how long you live, especially for men.
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2012, 04:58 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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The number of children one has is usually not a function of how long you live, especially for men.
Yes and no. A better indicator is often how many relationships you have.
In our world, if a man and a woman have a relationship with each other for 50 years, then he'll probably have just one clutch of children. But if a male AS has 50 year long relationships, then he could easily have 8 to 10 of those over his entire lifetime, each with its separate brood. A non-channeler would have 2 or 3 batches* of children. Thus, the channeler would tend to have more children over an entire lifetime.

* Glad I don't have to come up with yet another synonym in this post.
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  #30  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:50 PM
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Yes and no. A better indicator is often how many relationships you have.
In our world, if a man and a woman have a relationship with each other for 50 years, then he'll probably have just one clutch of children. But if a male AS has 50 year long relationships, then he could easily have 8 to 10 of those over his entire lifetime, each with its separate brood. A non-channeler would have 2 or 3 batches* of children. Thus, the channeler would tend to have more children over an entire lifetime.

* Glad I don't have to come up with yet another synonym in this post.
Men have several relationships in their lifetimes but do they have children from all relationships? The bonds formed from a relationship that lasts 50years can be pretty difficult to ignore when you want to start the next "brood".

I mean how do you explain to a 50year old "kid" that you want to get a new mummy and brothers andf sisters? Kid probably has a 10-20year old "kid" of his own.
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  #31  
Old 05-20-2012, 05:16 PM
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I mean how do you explain to a 50year old "kid" that you want to get a new mummy and brothers andf sisters? Kid probably has a 10-20year old "kid" of his own.
Why do you think Traveling was invented?

Edited to add:
It might be more difficult to explain to a 250 year old kid that you're dating the great grand daughter of his first girlfriend.

Last edited by GonzoTheGreat; 05-20-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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