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  #1  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:26 PM
Lironah Lironah is offline
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Default Callandor and Saidar

My husband has a theory about Callandor that I thought I'd share with everyone because it has a lot of merit.

He thinks the reason Callandor went crazy for Rand, and the reason why a woman has to be involved, is that the sword draws saidar as well as saidin. Obviously, somebody who couldn't see saidar wouldn't know that was the problem, and linking with a woman would certainly alleviate that sort of problem. It still doesn't cover why there have to be two women, but it's a start.

Anybody want to hunt up the relevant quotes and see whether the evidence supports this theory?
  #2  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:29 PM
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There were any number of people that could have witnessed Callandor drawing saidar in the Stone, but they did not. Also, when the women used the Bowl, they noticed gaps in the weaves where saidin was, and I'd imagine Rand would notice the same thing if Callandor drew saidar in addition to saidin.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:30 PM
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That would mean it would have to be a Ter'angreal rather than Sa'angreal first off...
Ter'angreal that also increases amount channeled like a Sa'angreal?

(Damn italics)
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lironah
My husband has a theory about Callandor that I thought I'd share with everyone because it has a lot of merit.

He thinks the reason Callandor went crazy for Rand, and the reason why a woman has to be involved, is that the sword draws saidar as well as saidin. Obviously, somebody who couldn't see saidar wouldn't know that was the problem, and linking with a woman would certainly alleviate that sort of problem. It still doesn't cover why there have to be two women, but it's a start.

Anybody want to hunt up the relevant quotes and see whether the evidence supports this theory?
Nice deflection of responsibility there!

I think Callandor like any other angreal is simply a tool. Nothing can draw the Sources other than an individual. I fail to see how an inanimate object could embrace either saidin or saidar.

I don;t know that there'll be any reason for Callandor's flaws.

edit: Am I totally wrong?
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz
I fail to see how an inanimate object could embrace either saidin or saidar.
Forgot the Bowl of the Winds already, huh?
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:49 PM
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There was mention made somewhere that it is possible some terangreal exist that can be used by both male or female. However callandor was used in a circle of male and female at the cleansing. Likely they should have noticed then that drew more of saidar than should be expected. But as Gonzo would say, they are AS and might miss something like that.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf
There was mention made somewhere that it is possible some terangreal exist that can be used by both male or female. However callandor was used in a circle of male and female at the cleansing. Likely they should have noticed then that drew more of saidar than should be expected. But as Gonzo would say, they are AS and might miss something like that.
I already pointed out that it would have to be a ter'angreal to allow Saidin and Saidar to both be used. Unfortunately, Callandor is a Sa'angreal. So...yeah...
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Forgot the Bowl of the Winds already, huh?
Yeah

My reread was cut short by 7 books when I realised I would never make it in time.

It still confuses me though. Did they use Saidin to Heal the weather?
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  #9  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz
It still confuses me though. Did they use Saidin to Heal the weather?
Saidin as well as Saidar. The bowl itself grabbed the Saidin and twisted it to what was necessary for the weave.
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  #10  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz
Nice deflection of responsibility there!
You know it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz
I think Callandor like any other angreal is simply a tool. Nothing can draw the Sources other than an individual. I fail to see how an inanimate object could embrace either saidin or saidar.

I don;t know that there'll be any reason for Callandor's flaws.

edit: Am I totally wrong?
There are all kinds of ter'angreal which can be worked by people who don't even channel. It would be an interesting experiment to see if any of those would work in a stedding.
  #11  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matoyak
Saidin as well as Saidar. The bowl itself grabbed the Saidin and twisted it to what was necessary for the weave.
I don't doubt you, and I hesitate from trying understand things on a scientific level, but that seems like trembling horseshit to me. How could the Bowl do that?
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lironah
Obviously, somebody who couldn't see saidar wouldn't know that was the problem, and linking with a woman would certainly alleviate that sort of problem.
Elza Penfel guided Callandor's power during the Clansing and nothing was mentioned in her POV about any amplification of Saidar or additional source of Saidar.

Merise Haindehl was the other womanin the link at the Cleansing and she makes no mention of Callandor drawing or amplifying Saidar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lironah
It still doesn't cover why there have to be two women, but it's a start.
The second woman has to be linked because a one plus one (MF)circle has to be led by the man.

BWB
Chapter 2
The One Power and the True Source

In most cases, either a man or a woman can control the link - this is called leading, focusing, or guiding - but in the case of a circle of seventy-two, a circle of only one man and one woman, or in most circles of up to thirteen which contain more than one man, a man must lead. Excepting the examples given above, and other circles of thirteen or less, a woman must lead where the minimum number of men are present.
The BWB doesn't cover the buffering effect of a link, (see the bowl of the winds circle for that explanation) but a member of a link cannot be forced to draw more power than is safe. Callandor must be used by a circle of three with a woman controlling the flows so that the inherent buffering of the link replaces Callandor's missing buffer.
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matoyak
That would mean it would have to be a Ter'angreal rather than Sa'angreal first off...
Ter'angreal that also increases amount channeled like a Sa'angreal?

(Damn italics)
That would be a sater'angreal then, wouldn't it?
  #14  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat
That would be a sater'angreal then, wouldn't it?
Hmmm...how does one make a joke about someone sneezing if saying "bless you" to imply it was a sneeze would offend said person? Interesting quandry.

Also, it almost sounded like you were talking about a Taer clanman. I keep reading it "Sa'taergreal" o_O
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