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  #61  
Old 10-31-2012, 03:27 PM
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It is pretty amazing to suggest someone else would do a better job. RJ is dead. Therefore, no matter who took the job there was always going to be problems. The only one who could have finished it the *exact* way it was intended is dead.

Yeesh. Enjoy the ride folks.
  #62  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:22 PM
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Except if they are a mod.
I didn't know that. I tried to add myself to my ignore list to confirm, and sadly it wasn't possible. Wait, how did you come to know that?
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  #63  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Landro View Post
Could you perhaps name some better candidates instead?
Harriet herself... any anonymous ghost rider... anyone who listens to criticism rather than dismissing it all as sanderson says... there is nothing special about sanderson on this project, it has made his career, but at the expense of someone elses work. It would have done the same for any other noob author they choose, but perhaps they wouldnt have the arrogance to ignore negative criticism when he fucks up. Perhaps someone else wouldnt try to ride the coattails so hard...

EDIT: by ghost rider i mean ghost writer... lol

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I didn't know that. I tried to add myself to my ignore list to confirm, and sadly it wasn't possible. Wait, how did you come to know that?
Cuz he tried to ignore Terez lol...
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  #64  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:29 PM
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That's pretty stupid. Harriet is an editor, not a writer. She'd be the first to tell you that.

Honestly at this point, the criticism of BS is going overboard.

I am annoyed at some of it too but really, its time to lay off of him.

Also, its complete BS that its "made his career". He was already 2 full books into Mistborn before RJ even died. He was already well on his way to establishing himself as a name in the industry before he was picked.
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  #65  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
That's pretty stupid. Harriet is an editor, not a writer. She'd be the first to tell you that.

Honestly at this point, the criticism of BS is going overboard.

I am annoyed at some of it too but really, its time to lay off of him.
I have been following this series since the hard cover release of The Great Hunt. I am more than entitled to express my opinion after 23+ years of purchasing into this franchise, especially when i see it going to hell. And especially in a thread that has been created solely for that purpose. I said years ago when he picked up the contract that I would wait to see how he does... sadly hes not doing so hot now, and it both scares me and hurts me. If you dont want to see it, then you should do as Terez suggested and not look at this thread... neh?

You think Harriet cant write? You do realize she is a poet, right? I think she would have done a better job than sanderson is doing. Though I think it might be hard for her to write in her late husband's world because of the issue of loss... As an editor, I think she is more than capable of writing. As the other poster asked for other candidates, I made my suggestions. As a published author herself, and a long time editor, what makes you think she is incapable of writing?


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Originally Posted by davian
Also, its complete BS that its "made his career". He was already 2 full books into Mistborn before RJ even died. He was already well on his way to establishing himself as a name in the industry before he was picked.
It did make his career. He was a nobody that very few ppl ever heard of, now hes a best seller based solely on usurping WoT fame. His books will continue to be best sellers solely because of the exposure he received from the WoT project. There is nothing wrong with that, but trying to act like this scrub was a somebody before hand is ridiculous. You yourself acknowledge that he was in the process of establishing himself, not already established. WoT is what established him, not his own work. His own work has benefited immensely because of his WoT exposure, not the other way around. WoT made his career and made his name big, not that young adult piece of crap mistborn series...
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Last edited by Ieyasu; 10-31-2012 at 04:48 PM.
  #66  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
I have been following this series since the hard cover release of The Great Hunt. I am more than entitled to express my opinion after 23+ years of purchasing into this franchise, especially when i see it going to hell. And especially in a thread that has been created solely for that purpose. I said years ago when he picked up the contract that I would wait to see how he does... sadly hes not doing so hot now, and it both scares me and hurts me. If you dont want to see it, then you should do as Terez suggested and not look at this thread... neh?

You think Harriet cant write? You do realize she is a poet, right? I think she would have done a better job than sanderson is doing. Though I think it might be hard for her to write in her late husband's world because of the issue of loss... As an editor, I think she is more than capable of writing. As the other poster asked for other candidates, I made my suggestions. As a published author herself, and a long time editor, what makes you think she is incapable of writing?
Poetry=/=Epic Fantasy

Editing=/=Writing

I know these are hard concepts to understand. As to your opinion, of course you are entitled to it. Just as I am entitled to call it stupid.
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  #67  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
I have been following this series since the hard cover release of The Great Hunt. I am more than entitled to express my opinion after 23+ years of purchasing into this franchise, especially when i see it going to hell. And especially in a thread that has been created solely for that purpose. I said years ago when he picked up the contract that I would wait to see how he does... sadly hes not doing so hot now, and it both scares me and hurts me. If you dont want to see it, then you should do as Terez suggested and not look at this thread... neh?

You think Harriet cant write? You do realize she is a poet, right? I think she would have done a better job than sanderson is doing. Though I think it might be hard for her to write in her late husband's world because of the issue of loss... As an editor, I think she is more than capable of writing. As the other poster asked for other candidates, I made my suggestions. As a published author herself, and a long time editor, what makes you think she is incapable of writing?
I do not know about other things, but I think she is incapable of writing WOT, because she was not chosen to write it. By herself and by people who knew her, who had seen her work.
  #68  
Old 10-31-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Poetry=/=Epic Fantasy

Editing=/=Writing

I know these are hard concepts to understand. As to your opinion, of course you are entitled to it. Just as I am entitled to call it stupid.
It was a suggestion, I did not say it was the best one, merely better than sanderson's bullshit hack fan-fic. If I (and everyone else in case you were speaking to ppl in general rather than just me) is entitled to our opinions, why are you telling me to lay off of him? You know he doesnt read negative criticism anyway... and if you dont like it, then I suggest you follow Terez' advice and simply not read it...
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Last edited by Ieyasu; 10-31-2012 at 04:56 PM.
  #69  
Old 10-31-2012, 05:09 PM
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I think Harriet probably never considered writing it. She has the gift of good prose, to be sure, but writing a story is different from writing a poem. I've done both, and enjoy both, but writing a novel is a very time-consuming, long-term project. On top of that, Harriet's WoT-fu is probably not as good as Brandon's is, despite the fact that she edited it. And Brandon's fu is, even after years of practice, not that great.

On top of all that, while most of us long-term fans suffered emotionally from RJ's death, it might be helpful factor in a few orders of magnitude for Harriet and imagine what she was going through at the time she had to make the choice. I wish she had waited a little longer, not because I think she should have necessarily picked someone else, but because that would have given her some time to plan a little better. Some of her early comments made it clear that getting to work on AMOL helped her manage her grief, though, and I can respect that.
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  #70  
Old 10-31-2012, 05:09 PM
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I didn't know that. I tried to add myself to my ignore list to confirm, and sadly it wasn't possible. Wait, how did you come to know that?
Been ignorin' mods since the day after I got here.
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  #71  
Old 10-31-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I think Harriet probably never considered writing it. She has the gift of good prose, to be sure, but writing a story is different from writing a poem. I've done both, and enjoy both, but writing a novel is a very time-consuming, long-term project. On top of that, Harriet's WoT-fu is probably not as good as Brandon's is, despite the fact that she edited it. And Brandon's fu is, even after years of practice, not that great.

On top of all that, while most of us long-term fans suffered emotionally from RJ's death, it might be helpful factor in a few orders of magnitude for Harriet and imagine what she was going through at the time she had to make the choice. I wish she had waited a little longer, not because I think she should have necessarily picked someone else, but because that would have given her some time to plan a little better. Some of her early comments made it clear that getting to work on AMOL helped her manage her grief, though, and I can respect that.
Yeah, I mentioned her personal loss. I do not know that if they picked anyone else anything would be different at all... i jsut dont like the directions its going in now and can only blame sanderson... I think the best bet would have been to pick a ghost writer... atleast the last 3 books wouldnt look different on my shelf then...
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  #72  
Old 10-31-2012, 05:14 PM
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Yeah, I mentioned her personal loss. I do not know that if they picked anyone else anything would be different at all... i jsut dont like the directions its going in now and can only blame sanderson... I think the best bet would have been to pick a ghost writer... atleast the last 3 books wouldnt look different on my shelf then...
The appearance of your bookshelf definitely should have been the first consideration...
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  #73  
Old 10-31-2012, 05:53 PM
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The appearance of your bookshelf definitely should have been the first consideration...
It is far from my first consideration, but it does bother me. Some of these books have been on my shelf for over 20 years, yes, I care how they appear on it. It is the reason I havent bought the leather-bound editions, because the spines are not uniform. The titles do not align, some are horizontal, some are vertical. Those things bother me, perhaps it isnt important to you... but I care about how it looks on my shelf. Hopefully they will come out with an entire special edition series that does have unity in appearance. But that is just the OCD in me peeking out, and has nothing to do with what a shitty writer sanderson is, or how badly I feel he is handling this last book. The other thing I hope is that they actually spend some time on editing this time around... the quantity of spelling errors in the past two books has been absurd, and I havent seen the same in sanderson's other works, nor was it so rampant when Jordan was alive... I dont know who to blame that on ultimately, as the editors should catch such... and yet its sanderson who is submitting them full of typos etc.

I am not going to lay off of him just because it hurts your fanboy feelings. He took up this mantle and I do not feel it is too much to ask that he maintains the standards that were set out in the previous 12 books... standards that have been slipping down successively with each book sanderson has published in this franchise. With each book he has lowered the bar, and the arrogance in saying he doesnt listen to criticism about it is akin to Terry Goodkind thinking his Sword of Truth series isnt fantasy...
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  #74  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:05 PM
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... the quantity of spelling errors in the past two books has been absurd, and I havent seen the same in sanderson's other works, nor was it so rampant when Jordan was alive... I dont know who to blame that on ultimately, as the editors should catch such... and yet its sanderson who is submitting them full of typos etc
At this point, its just comical criticism. Editing issues are the fault of the Editor, not the submitter. If a team of editors led by Harriet is missing these errors, that's on them, not the author...especially given the lack of errors in Brandon's own work.
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  #75  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:30 PM
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Here's my two cents on the issue.

First, it's been hashed and rehashed (hey, welcome to Theoryland!) that Brandon doesn't have "the voice" of certain characters. To me, that's whatever. It's not possible for another author to 100% recapture the voice of another author's characters. Get over it.

Second, for those of you lambasting Brandon - you must be wearing one hell of a pair of rose colored glasses. RJ was far, far, far from a perfect writer. I respect the man and admire his work, but let's take a step back here. If we're going to criticize Brandon for poor writing, you'd sure better hold that magnifying glass up to RJ's prose.
  #76  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:52 PM
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Some of us have. And even Brandon doesn't try to pretend that there's not an objective difference, tastes aside.
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  #77  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:04 PM
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I think we can all agree that we would have preferred if RJ had finished the series. Harriet would have wished for that even more than us fanboys and fangirls. Unfortunately that is not possible.

RJ left his legacy in Harriet's hands. There's an old interview where he stated that if he'd die before finishing the series, he wanted all his notes to be burned. Obviously, he changed his mind. He choose to let Harriet pick a writer to finish his work and she did. Maybe he urged her not to wait too long but that's just speculating.

RJ's shoes were big and not easy to fill. Myself, I cannot even imagine starting the task of fishing a series like WoT even though I know quite a lot about it. (perhaps more than Brandon before he had access to RJ's notes) I can see why other writers might have declined the offer to finish the books. Perhaps other writers have been approached but it would have been unwise to announce that.

Brandon had some level of success with his own books before he was announce as the writer to finish WoT. His sales have, without a doubt, profited from it. I think he would have done well even if he had declined the offer, although at a lower number of sales. As Cory Doctorov pointed out, the biggest obstacle for any artist is to overcome obscurity and this certainly helped Brandon overcome his obscurity. It's interesting to note that GRRM had the same problem when a game of Thrones was first published. (GRRM owes a lot to RJ's endorsement)

I think most established writers would much rather work on their own worlds than on somebody else's, but you'd still want a writer with at least several books published. Brandon fit the bill. If you know of any candidates who would have done better, I'd love to hear it. So far all people have come up with are 'some other noob writer' and 'a ghostwriter'.

Brandon's work has it's flaws. He was originally a fan like us and has his favorites among the cast as a result. He's also made some continuity errors but he's in good company because RJ did the same.

Let's just be glad that many people have spent a lot of time and effort to deliver the conclusion of RJ's story. If you call yourself a long time fan and claim you won't buy aMoL, I call your bluff.
  #78  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:09 PM
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Here's something else: RJ at his worst is not as good as Brandon at his best.

There are points where RJ's characters descend to caricatures; they're Terry Pratchett-esque, comparable to David Eddings. During these times his prose style slips as well, and it's often with his female characters when doing a very close, almost first-person point of view. This is particularly evident in Crossroads of Twilight, hence why it's one of the less well-liked books. The characters begin to seem indistinct, all thinking in the same way. To me it's one of the series' biggest flaws, especially with the newer and less-developed characters. How many times has it been commented that all Aes Sedai are the same selfish, scheming, short-sighted types? That's a flaw in the writing, because while RJ certainly wanted common traits to the Tower-trained characters, he did not want them to seem indistinct.

Brandon, in his own works and in WOT, does not have this problem - even in the POV we have from Chapter 2 (not denying that has its own set of problems, but the specific problem with voice I'm talking about is not one of them). Pevara remains unique, as does Elayne, as does Egwene; Rand does not read like Mat, whatever your problems with Mat, and he even manages to make Perrin stand out.

At his worst, Brandon is not as accomplished a writer as RJ could hope to be. But RJ's skill does not begin where Brandon's ends. There is substantial overlap between them.
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The one who Death has known

Last edited by Zombie Sammael; 11-01-2012 at 07:42 AM.
  #79  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:19 PM
Sid Sid is offline
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I'm getting it from the library. I was going to buy it, but the stuff they released already made me change my mind. Other than the Isam section from the prologue the quality ranged from below average to laughably bad.

Their claim to use extra time to 'do it right' this time looks like a bold-faced lie from what we've gotten so far. Continuity issues, characters regressing to how they were in early books rather than progressing forward, and banal dialogue are issues that seem to have become worse, rather than better.

So yeah, if anything I'll wait for the paperback to come out unless the ending is so mind blowingly fantastic that it was worth this mess to get there. I did make a bookshelf around when TGS was going to come out specifically for my full paperback collection of the series, and it'd be a shame if I had to keep my 'A Storm of Swords' in the last spot to make it all fit properly.
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  #80  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:46 PM
Tollingtoy Tollingtoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
Brandon Sanderson has taken time out of his own career to finish the work of Robert Jordan. He's doing a remarkably good job stepping into the mind and world of another person. If you think you can do better, fine: you're welcome to write your own Fantasy series, and when you're at #1 on the Times list you can come back and tell us "I told you so". Until then, please stop the virulent bitching?

I'm not one of the Brandon haters and I'd rather have a finished story than an unfinished story, but to say that Brandon was doing WOT fans some type of favor by taking this on is absurd. The amount of money and notoriety that he has received from finishing the WOT more than outweighs some people criticizing him on a message board. Even if it was incredibly hard for him to do this and even if people's complaining hurts his feelings, I'll bet all those extra copies of TWOK he sells will make up for it
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