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Old 12-05-2017, 02:32 AM
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Discussion starts here: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/...ead.php?t=9025



Quote:
Originally Posted by jarno87 View Post
Yeah, some parts were certainly uncomfortable and hard to read. It was what the character and the story needed.
yes, it was necessary. Considering it's Sanderson, though, it was a little surprising. He doesn't normally do really disturbing stuff. Brooding, sure. But that's usually more in the vein of "OMG, life's so unfair, everything sux. I'm so depressed. ooh, pretty girl/guy! all better now " I mean, it's not bad or anything, that sort of stuff definitely has its place in any kind of fiction and depending on the author I rather enjoy reading such storylines. But it is a little emotionally shallow. So what Sanderson did with both Dalinar and Shallan in this book I found a show of real progress for him as a writer.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
I finished it. I found it overlong. Some sections genuinely seem to be as long as they are to simply up the page count. I won't say "nothing happens". Its just they don't come across as significant events, because they seem to impact the characters in no way.

The ending is typically epic, though I'm not sure there isn't too much overpowering of characters going on for this early in the series.

My biggest problem with the book is that it took some arcs regarding the Parshendi in directions where the thematic implications with regard to slavery, colonization and reparations are... controversial to say the least. And that would be fine, except I don't think Brandon actually wants the story to say what its currently saying. Either we're going to get one more "twist" that negates all this, in which case, boo; or Brandon is going to remain unaware of these implications, which is just going to be disappointing.
hmm, I remember thinking in book 2 that all those Shallan confidence monologues were too long but in Oathbringer they paid off, I found. So maybe we'll get that in the next book for whatever bits you thought were overlong now? Although, I did think that some of the battle stuff was overly convoluted and stretched out. But then, I'm always more of a politicking-and-verbal-knife-stabbing kind of girl.

What with how much we were bashed over the head about the whole Parshendi thing, I doubt he's unaware of the implications and real-world parallels. I do wonder how he's going to resolve it though because... well, it's a sensitive subject. Then again, people who read tend to be opposed to slavery so I doubt he'll lose any fans if he takes the theme further. He will definitely make fans angry though if there's another twist.

I agree about he overpowering. But he's also making it very clear that what's happening now isn't even close to the magnitude of collective powers from the past. Like, they've a handful of Radiants that are in various stages of "completion", compared to the thousands that Urithiru could potentially house. I do hope that he doesn't turn to scaling up the masses, that tends to get boring. From what we've seen so far, each of the Radiants is deeply damaged, so there's plenty of opportunity to go deeper into that aspect: how do you build a functioning organization out of depressed lunatics with superpowers?
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:13 AM
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I'm of the opinion that that is just BS's writing style...he does huge, overly long buildups where nothing really happens and then sprints to the finish. Pretty much all of his books have that issue or style depending on whether it bothers you as a reader I suppose.

I have not read Oathkeeper yet of course but it wouldn't surprise me if there were 400-500 pages where very little happens outside of world-building and character interactions.

And maybe a younger, precocious female who sounds exactly the same in every single book whether she's named Vin, Shallan, Siri, or Sarene.

Granted, I like his writing and own most of his books but its definitely something that sticks out to me.

Am I the only one that "hears" a certain voice for a character like that based on the way their dialogue is written? I assume that normal and I'm not descending into schizophrenia?
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Am I the only one that "hears" a certain voice for a character like that based on the way their dialogue is written? I assume that normal and I'm not descending into schizophrenia?
That seems pretty normal. I tend to envision both the character and how they sound when Iím reading. Can be perhaps part of why if a story is turned into a movie, and youíve already read the book (along with excisions), the film version can often seem somewhat jarring, with certain characters seeming wrong compared to how you had created them in your own mind. If wot ever is made there will definitely also be an adjustment for me in terms of pronunciations, because I started reading without paying much attention to the pronunciation guides in the back, and at times simply intentionally ignoring RJís intended pronunciations because they seemed unnatural.

Along somewhat similar lines...

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42237092
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:35 PM
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I'm pretty sure I'm the oddity of a reader; I am not a visual person so description of most kind mostly washes over me. I don't even have a lick of an idea what Caemlyn looks like, or Rand, or Egwene. Honestly my head is mostly blank when I read; which sounds not only counter intuitive but the complete opposite of every single person I know that reads.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:55 AM
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I’m not completely finished with Oathbringer yet, though getting close to finished, enough so that I wanted to toss out a couple of thoughts/questions.

-Does it bother anyone else that Taravangian and his advisors set up guidelines that tested his daily intelligence, with the explicit stipulation that when he’s too intelligent, he’s not allowed to make any decisions, and yet they are following his Diagram on the basis of a day at his most intelligent, a day that led to countless assassinations that set in motion chaos? Clearly his Diagram was the work of a psychotic genius that cannot be trusted. Yet they still are following it, even though they don’t let him make any other meaningful decisions on his smart days. Taravangian is clealry at his best when he is just barely above average intelligence, and at his worst when he is intelligent. Is Brandon trying to suggest that in his opinion intelligent people cannot be trusted?

-There is the danger of focusing too much just on the main three Bonded that we know - Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar - but are spren drawn specifically to those who are psychologically damaged? Kaladin is suffering from severe depression and is often suicidal, Shallan is suffering from severe dissociative disorder, and Dalinar was so overwhelmed by guilt at how his wife died that, after adding alcoholism to his past psychological problem - being a murderously sadistic sociopath, went to the Nightwatcher to erase his memory of Evi to escape his guilt. Syl said that spren were drawn to emotion, could it be even more specific than that? Could that help explain why the Recreance occurred? Why the Heralds all broke psychologically, not just out of PTSD, but because they relapsed? Lift was an abandoned thief, so seems likely to fit the same pattern? Especially as Lift, like Dalinar, had visited the Nightwatcher. Jasnah? She seems far more stable than all the other Radiants. Don’t know enough about Malata to have formed much of an opinion or impression, though the fact that she’s working for Taravangian (sort of), certainly doesn’t seem a mark in her favor.

-Is that little, non-evil (i.e. non voidspren) spren that is hanging out with Venli her reincarnated sister, Eshonai?

-Does anyone else find Sanderson’s attempts at humor to be offputting? I’m beginning to wonder if this might be the main reason why I disliked his version of Mat Cauthon. On the other hand, it’s possible however that I just find both Shallan and Hoid to be really obnoxious. Not sure if the atrociously bad jokes that both of those characters constantly tell were meant to be intentionally awful, or if my taste in humor is simply so different from Sanderson’s.

-Is anyone else bothered by Sanderson’s inclination for creating ridiculously unpronounceable words? I feel like his editor should have reminded him far too often about the existence of vowels.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:11 PM
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I actually think Sanderson is being far less subtle with Taravangian than that; I think he's saying literally what he's saying, which is that no matter how capital S Smart you are, if there's no empathy, no humanity behind it, then what is the point? You could argue he's drawing a subtle parallel between him and Jasnah, her willingness to genocide all parshmen in order to 'beat' the Fused is similarly heartless and lacking any empathy, the classic "what's the point of surviving if we don't deserve to survive"

There are also theories that Cultivation actually granted his curse/boon similar to Dalinar, and she is using Mr. T and his 'Diagram' to purposely fool Odium. He's already confirmed he wouldn't see T when he's at his smartest, etc, which would kinda take away any point Sanderson may or may not have about intellect v 'humanity'

As far as his humour goes, I am torn on it. I personally love bad jokes and sarcasm, I find that my problem with Shallan and Hoid specifically are that there's seemingly no tact, or a lack of understanding of comedic timing. Not that I want these books to be an exercise in being depressing, but maybe the best time to get your one liner out there isn't during a potentially suicidal mission. Takes me out of it. But I'm sure there are those that love it.

I mostly hated that humour with Mat because RJ I don't think ever wrote one of his characters making a joke, all of his humour was circumstantial and contextual (and honestly lost on me when I first started reading it in my early teens).
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:35 PM
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Loial told a joke:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSR, Chapter 56, Goldeneyes
Do you think I would run away? he had said when Perrin suggested he could slip off into the night after Faile. His ears had dropped with weariness and hurt. I came with you, Perrin, and I will stay until you go. And then he had laughed suddenly, a deep booming sound that almost rattled the dishes. Perhaps someone will even tell a story of me, one day. We do not go in for such things, but there could be an Ogier hero, I suppose. A joke, Perrin. I made a joke. Laugh. Come, we will tell each other jokes, and laugh, and think of Faile flying free.
And the DO also made a joke:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoC, Prologue
She swayed, massaging her throat, and Osan’gar moved to help her, but she threatened him with a glare and a fist before he touched her. He backed away with raised hands. That was one enmity he did not need. But it was a fine body, and a fine joke. He had always prided himself on his sense of humor, but this was rich.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
I’m not completely finished with Oathbringer yet, though getting close to finished, enough so that I wanted to toss out a couple of thoughts/questions.

-Does it bother anyone else that Taravangian and his advisors set up guidelines that tested his daily intelligence, with the explicit stipulation that when he’s too intelligent, he’s not allowed to make any decisions, and yet they are following his Diagram on the basis of a day at his most intelligent, a day that led to countless assassinations that set in motion chaos? Clearly his Diagram was the work of a psychotic genius that cannot be trusted. Yet they still are following it, even though they don’t let him make any other meaningful decisions on his smart days. Taravangian is clealry at his best when he is just barely above average intelligence, and at his worst when he is intelligent. Is Brandon trying to suggest that in his opinion intelligent people cannot be trusted?
I think connabard got it. I think it may also be a take on someone with OCD or on the autism spectrum - they get so focused on one thing, they forget about everything else, and sure - a solution appears to solve the current problem but that solution is not necessarily great for everything else that's going on. Such as keeping people alive or some such...

Quote:
-There is the danger of focusing too much just on the main three Bonded that we know - Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar - but are spren drawn specifically to those who are psychologically damaged? Kaladin is suffering from severe depression and is often suicidal, Shallan is suffering from severe dissociative disorder, and Dalinar was so overwhelmed by guilt at how his wife died that, after adding alcoholism to his past psychological problem - being a murderously sadistic sociopath, went to the Nightwatcher to erase his memory of Evi to escape his guilt. Syl said that spren were drawn to emotion, could it be even more specific than that? Could that help explain why the Recreance occurred? Why the Heralds all broke psychologically, not just out of PTSD, but because they relapsed? Lift was an abandoned thief, so seems likely to fit the same pattern? Especially as Lift, like Dalinar, had visited the Nightwatcher. Jasnah? She seems far more stable than all the other Radiants. Don’t know enough about Malata to have formed much of an opinion or impression, though the fact that she’s working for Taravangian (sort of), certainly doesn’t seem a mark in her favor.
oh Jasnah is cuckoo as well. There are those flashes of her as a child, locked in a room and screaming and screaming... I think her poise and perfectionism is a coping mechanism.

Quote:
-Is that little, non-evil (i.e. non voidspren) spren that is hanging out with Venli her reincarnated sister, Eshonai?
Might be, although I kind of hope it's not.
Spoiler:
I was hoping that if a corrupted spren can Bond a human (Renarin), then maybe a non-corrupted spren can Bond a Singer, if they're depressed enough...


Quote:
-Does anyone else find Sanderson’s attempts at humor to be offputting? I’m beginning to wonder if this might be the main reason why I disliked his version of Mat Cauthon. On the other hand, it’s possible however that I just find both Shallan and Hoid to be really obnoxious. Not sure if the atrociously bad jokes that both of those characters constantly tell were meant to be intentionally awful, or if my taste in humor is simply so different from Sanderson’s.
I don't mind it. But then, humour is extremely individual, for example I can't stand Fail videos and most of the man-humour is... eh... irrelevant and/or offensive. I do find Hoid annoying. His character is probably supposed to be annoying so I guess that's fine; but I also don't like how he's somehow this great storyteller/psychologist to the confused little hoomins. it's weird.



on a different note, do you guys mind if I move these posts onto the Sanderson board?
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
Might be, although I kind of hope it's not.
Spoiler:
I was hoping that if a corrupted spren can Bond a human (Renarin), then maybe a non-corrupted spren can Bond a Singer, if they're depressed enough...



on a different note, do you guys mind if I move these posts onto the Sanderson board?
I'm not sure what to make of Glys, or of the spren in general, but was wondering if they are perhaps just second-stage Parshendi, i.e. larval stage being as the humanoid phase, death being the crysalis, and then spren being the butterfly stage. With how they died coupled with their temperament during while a larva perhaps determining what type of spren they became. Of course that would still leave the problem of how then spren can procreate (even if asexually, which seems maybe the case), and produce new spren. Considering the intimacy typically implied in the Bond, there is of course another possibility that comes to mind, and Syl was pretty curious about sex...

Anyone have a clue on how the Worldhopping is accomplished? Seems like Shadesmar is maybe the portal between worlds? But then why does it only mirror Roshar?

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Old 12-31-2017, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
I'm not sure what to make of Glys, or of the spren in general, but was wondering if they are perhaps just second-stage Parshendi, i.e. larval stage being as the humanoid phase, death being the crysalis, and then spren being the butterfly stage.
There is a scene in Oathbringer that explains how the sentient spren reproduce. I won't put it here in case it spoils it for someone, but it is not what you said.

Quote:
Anyone have a clue on how the Worldhopping is accomplished? Seems like Shadesmar is maybe the portal between worlds? But then why does it only mirror Roshar?
In all of the cosmere books there are three realms, physical, cognitive, and spiritual. Shadesmar is the cognitive realm, and a character also goes to the cognitive realm in Mistborn Secret History. Anywhere in the physical that there is stuff there will be a reflection of it in the cognitive realm, but big empty bits of nothing, ie space, will not be reflected there. So, Shadesmar is massive. All of Roshar, all of Scadrial, I believe all of every planet, to some extent. I think investment and population play a factor.
To Worldhop you need to transition to the cognitive realm, find the reflection of the place you want to go then transition back to the physical realm.
The most accessible method for both transitions appears to be using a perpendicularity of one of the shards of Adonalsium invested on a particular planet, but I think some specific magics can also be used.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:09 PM
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I finished the book a couple days ago.

I found it to be chaotic. Man, the hopelessness was palpable. I also think BS overdid the sarcastic humor. In the final battle, would it not have been better to give more stormlight to Jasnah instead of Shallan? Seems like Jasnah could have easily defeated everyone on her own.
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