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  #1  
Old 01-22-2014, 02:05 PM
Seeker Seeker is offline
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Default Bad Trek

Hey, guys. So, we were discussing bad Star Trek in Gen WOT and I thought we'd continue it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
Yup. That's the one. The worst episode of TNG
The one where Wesley steps on the grass/breaks something and is about to be executed is pretty atrocious too. Its amazing the show wasn't canceled after the first season considering how many unwatchable episodes there really are there.

The 2nd season isn't much better really.

Most of the Wesley focused episodes were terrible, the Troi episodes were pretty bad too for that matter.

Also, Sub Rosa is far worse than Code of Honor if for no other reason that it was much later in the show's run and they should have known better than to make that episode. It was a really bad romance novel turned into a TNG episode.

Other really bad episodes:

Masks (Data turns into an evil Aztec god along with the rest of the ship...so brutal)
Genesis (they all start devolving...just brutal)
The Naked Now (2nd ever episode...its only saved by the hilarous Data line "I am fully functional, programed in multiple techniques" right before he plows Tasha Yar
The Royale They're trapped in a crappy casino and Data has to win to get them free.


Also, its not TNG but the Voyager episode Threshold is by far the worst episode of Star Trek ever made and one of the worst episodes of television ever made. That's the one where Parris breaks the Warp 10 barrier and then he and Janeway turn into salamanders and have sex. Its the reason I stopped watching Voyager and gave up on the show period. Nothing ST will ever coming close to matching that level of suck
Yes, all of those episodes suck pretty hard. It's especially funny (and by 'funny,' I mean disturbing) that the planet of all black people (Code of Honour) is portrayed as savage while the planet of all white people (Justice: the one where Wesley falls through the glass) is portrayed as enlightened.

As for Threshold, I tend to agree with SFDebris in saying that it is the SECOND worst piece of Star Trek ever. The worst, of course, goes to Enterprise's A Night in Sickbay.

You should check out the SFDebris reviews. They're insightful and hilarious.

A Night in Sickbay
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e130.php

The Worst of the Worst
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/zworst.php
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:08 PM
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Dont forget Take Me Out To The Holodeck...the rare later season episode of DS9 that was absolutely terrible on every level. Its up there with any Vic Fontaine centered episode of DS9 actually.

Take Me Out was the worst episode of DS9 period IMHO...though it doesnt even approach Threshold.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:43 PM
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Can we talk about the best episodes instead? I'm not quite Trekkie enough to know the names of the episodes or even remember much about them, but my two favorite TNG episodes were 1) the one where everyone on the Enterprise gets intoxicated and Yar hooks up with Data, and 2) the time loop one with the poker game.

Incidentally I prefer the original cast but can't stand the original show. Loved the movies. Haven't seen the last few.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:02 PM
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I liked Masks.

Take me out was necessary to break up all the seriousness of the series at the time. You got to remember that not everyone likes a war. That being said I did not like the episode, and I like baseball.

The Warp 10 episode of Voyager was bad, and made little sense.

The whole first season of TNG was pretty bad, except for Q. I mean they had men wearing skirts in episodes!

I never got into Enterprise, frankly I did not even try very hard.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Dont forget Take Me Out To The Holodeck...the rare later season episode of DS9 that was absolutely terrible on every level. Its up there with any Vic Fontaine centered episode of DS9 actually.

Take Me Out was the worst episode of DS9 period IMHO...though it doesnt even approach Threshold.
I think that's a little unfair to His Way and It's Only a Paper Moon, which were mostly about Odo and Nog. Both were great episodes if you ask me, especially Paper Moon. The way it showed the tragedy of War. Both were Vic eps but they were great.

Take me out to the Holosuite made me laugh.

In all honesty - even though I liked her a lot - I felt the weakest part of Season 7 was Ezri. Not because there was anything wrong with her but she just didn't get enough time to distinguish herself from Jadzia.

Oh, Terez. The one with the drunk Enterprise crew is called the Naked Now. It's a lousy episode but works on the "So bad it's good" level. The one with the time loop is Cause and Effect. I agree that it was a lot of fun. I was really impressed with the way repeated the same scenes four times without it feeling repetitive.
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He bought two fifths of lead-free gasoline.
Said the bottle is dusty, but my engine is clean.
He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
If his bride didn't like it, St. Peter wouldn't mind.

Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Take Me Out was the worst episode of DS9 period IMHO...though it doesnt even approach Threshold.
I think you're forgetting Profit and Lace. Trust me, that one is far, FAR worse.
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He bought two fifths of lead-free gasoline.
Said the bottle is dusty, but my engine is clean.
He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
If his bride didn't like it, St. Peter wouldn't mind.

Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:00 PM
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I've always been more of a warsie than a trekkie, but not really all that fanatical about either. I was just a kid (and I mean just a kid as in age 6-9) when I watched TNG. My crazy preteen fan power was all about Turtles and during my teens I was introduced to Babylon 5. Later on I checked out a few episodes of the original Star Trek and sampled the Star Wars extended universe, but by then I was used to much higher standards in plot developement and general story telling. Even so I still revisit both Treks and Wars when the mood takes me.

So far my opinion is that SW books are a load of crap with the occasional piece of silver. The original Star Trek has its good points (like Leonard Nimoy and Leonard Nimoy then there is Leonard Nimoy and of course Leonard Nimoy) but for me it hasn't got a speck(pun!!) of nostalgic value. TNG does have some nostalgic value for me and while there is very little Leonard Nimoy, there is Patrick Stewart (Picard for the unenlightened), Brent Spiner (Data) and even some John de Lancie (Q). Also the character of Riker is far less annoying than that of Kirk. Granted there is Wesley, but that I think is a flaw deeply rooted in the writing and should not be blamed on Wheaton. I might actually go so far as to say that if it had been someone else the character would be far more hated than it is and to support this claim I point my finger at Hayden Christensen and the far worse younger version: Jake Lloyd.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:17 PM
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I totally agree about Babylon 5.

Best space opera series ever. Yes, even with the cheesy visual effects. The deep, complex characters, the brilliant dialogue, the fun space battles, the ongoing plot arcs and friggen "Mista Moooorden!" I really enjoyed it when Vir looked up into his lifeless eyes and waved just like this. *Wiggles fingers.*

Babylon 5 has never been equaled in terms of story telling, not by BSG, not by Star Gate, not by Firefly, not by other space opera to date.
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He bought two fifths of lead-free gasoline.
Said the bottle is dusty, but my engine is clean.
He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
If his bride didn't like it, St. Peter wouldn't mind.

Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
I think that's a little unfair to His Way and It's Only a Paper Moon, which were mostly about Odo and Nog. Both were great episodes if you ask me, especially Paper Moon. The way it showed the tragedy of War. Both were Vic eps but they were great.

Take me out to the Holosuite made me laugh.

In all honesty - even though I liked her a lot - I felt the weakest part of Season 7 was Ezri. Not because there was anything wrong with her but she just didn't get enough time to distinguish herself from Jadzia.

Oh, Terez. The one with the drunk Enterprise crew is called the Naked Now. It's a lousy episode but works on the "So bad it's good" level. The one with the time loop is Cause and Effect. I agree that it was a lot of fun. I was really impressed with the way repeated the same scenes four times without it feeling repetitive.
Only A Paper Moon was a solid episode thanks to Nog

Ezri was fun and all but they should have just left Dax as dead and not on the show. Jadzia was far superior as an actress and as eye candy.

Cause and Effect is one of the Top 10 if not Top 5 TNG episodes IMHO.

Quote:
I think you're forgetting Profit and Lace. Trust me, that one is far, FAR worse.
Oh God...I had blocked that one out. Okay, that's the worst DS9 episode with Take Me Out...as second.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
So far my opinion is that SW books are a load of crap with the occasional piece of silver.
THIS...one million times THIS. The Zahn books are all fairly solid even if some of it is silly (the extra vowel in the clone names, force blocking furrie worms, etc) but they are far, far superior to alot of the dreck that was put out back in the day:

The Truce At Bakura - reads like really bad fan fiction...I mean, really really bad fan fiction.

The Courtship of Princess Leia - same as above...but with rancors and witches. Its a bad romance novel.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
I totally agree about Babylon 5.

Best space opera series ever. Yes, even with the cheesy visual effects. The deep, complex characters, the brilliant dialogue, the fun space battles, the ongoing plot arcs and friggen "Mista Moooorden!" I really enjoyed it when Vir looked up into his lifeless eyes and waved just like this. *Wiggles fingers.*

Babylon 5 has never been equaled in terms of story telling, not by BSG, not by Star Gate, not by Firefly, not by other space opera to date.
Don't forget mister Bester of the Psi Corps.

Season 5, Episode 13 "The Corps Is Mother, the Corps Is Father" perhaps captured the character's creepiness best. Walter Koenig did the role magnificently.

I've got all seasons on DVD
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
THIS...one million times THIS. The Zahn books are all fairly solid even if some of it is silly (the extra vowel in the clone names, force blocking furrie worms, etc) but they are far, far superior to alot of the dreck that was put out back in the day:

The Truce At Bakura - reads like really bad fan fiction...I mean, really really bad fan fiction.

The Courtship of Princess Leia - same as above...but with rancors and witches. Its a bad romance novel.
Zahn is a Jedi Grand Master among a horde of padawans. Even if you don't like the plots or the silly bits or just don't ship Luke x Mara, the stories are well written.

The Truce At Bakura and The Courtship of Princess Leia are great examples of the crap, but they pale in comparison to what comes later in the verse. Really, really bad writers competing over who can make the Solo kids most sickeningly sweet and everyone of them failing badly. Then hey the readers are sick of it! (Finally caught on huh?) Let's kill one of them and turn another to the Dark Side and let's be really passive sexist about it and have neither of them be the girl!
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
[I]Ezri was fun and all but they should have just left Dax as dead and not on the show. Jadzia was far superior as an actress and as eye candy.
Now, this may be a bit of Canadian pride (the actress who played her is from Toronto and used to host Canadian kids shows when she was in her early twenties) but I would take Ezri any day in terms of sheer eye-candy. So hot.

Tworiverswoman knows that whenever I start watching DS9, I end up saying "Ezri cute.... CUUUU-UUUTE!"
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He bought two fifths of lead-free gasoline.
Said the bottle is dusty, but my engine is clean.
He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
If his bride didn't like it, St. Peter wouldn't mind.

Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:51 AM
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i'll just leave this here...
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:48 AM
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On the Star Trek thing.

I agree what you said about the first season of next gen, but don't forget about the last season.

During the last season on TNG the production company was also doing the following.
They were on season 2 or 3 on DS9.
They were starting Voyager.
They were in pre-production on the first next gen movie (Generations).
This was too much stuff.
It resulted in a decent DS9 season, a kind of bad first Voyager season, an ok movie and a rubbish TNG last season.


On the SW books thing. I've read quite a bunch of them.

There were a lot of bad books after the first Thrawn trilogy but there are some good examples.

The good ones are
The x-wing series. - This would be a great tv-series.
The Legacy of the force series. - This is the one where one of the kids go Sith.
Although it's been a while since I read SW books I recently read "Scoundrels" when a friend suggested it. - Think Oceans eleven with Han, Lando and a bunch of other scoundrels. It was not a masterpiece, but it was quite good.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:53 AM
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Seeker beat me to it!

But I also agree with Dav that Jadzia was the better character and actress. I grew up with watching the occasional Voyager, so I used to love the series, but when I watched them again later, I agree they're nowhere near TNG or DS9.
The original series just feel all fake to me, probably because by the time I saw them, I'd gotten used to 2000's graphics.

On Enterprise I'm going along with what seems to be the general internet consensus that the first seasons were not very good, but by the last one, they finally figured it out... but it was too little too late and they got cancelled anyway.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:49 AM
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I'm afraid to rewatch Babylon 5 because of the really crappy graphics

Saw the first season of TNG again a few months ago. Some very bad eps there. Afraid to see any more.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
Oh, Terez. The one with the drunk Enterprise crew is called the Naked Now. It's a lousy episode but works on the "So bad it's good" level.
Exactly. It was hilarious. I don't remember much of early TNG; I think that's the only one I remember.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:44 AM
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I'm afraid to rewatch Babylon 5 because of the really crappy graphics

Saw the first season of TNG again a few months ago. Some very bad eps there. Afraid to see any more.
Yeah, it is a real problem. They don't make them as they used to make them anymore. Once upon a time, they were amazing, innovative and novel, now they're rather dated. I wonder who decided to make that change. Should we blame George Lucas for this?
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:53 AM
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Exactly. It was hilarious. I don't remember much of early TNG; I think that's the only one I remember.
Its bad for a couple reasons....first, it was the 2nd ever episode of the show so none of the characters had been established yet. It only really works as a rerun because you know all the characters involved by then. Also, its a ripoff of a ST TOS episode.

It is, however, so bad that its funny so there's that.
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