art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7652

Logged In (2): nbogenrose, Brita,

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > WHEEL OF TIME FORUMS > General Wheel of Time Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:40 AM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
"Daughter of the Night, she walks again.
The ancient war, she yet fights.
Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die,
yet serve still."

Lanfear at least did have a good reason for going there, it would seem.
And a bunch of the other Forsaken would have been quite willing to Travel to the remotest place if that would allow them to kill LTT. He hadn't been universally liked, after all.
So you're saying Tuon was involved in the Winternight attack?
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz View Post
That does beg the question though: If other Forsaken are free at this time, especially Ishy himself, why were none of them in the Two Rivers on Winternight?
Or more generally, why weren't they doing anything at all? Most of the clues point to the Forsaken setting up somewhere around the time that Rand and Co. spent 4 months tripping on Portal Stones.

PS—Ishamael appeared to have difficulties, since he had trouble appearing at Shadar Logoth. I suspect his time had already run out by then, or that he was being pulled back into the Bore, or something like that, since he had no trouble appearing around the time of the Aiel War.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:36 PM
Fin Fin is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 94
Fin will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to Fin
Default

I always thought that guy to be a Whitecloak spy.
__________________
'I'm old enough to remember when MTV meant Music Television not Made-up Television. " Me
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,123
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fin View Post
I always thought that guy to be a Whitecloak spy.
That's because he was a whitecloak spy and that was even mentioned in the chapter he appears.

Though this is one of the more off-the-wall threads I've seen in a while.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:43 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 261
Seth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
That's because he was a whitecloak spy and that was even mentioned in the chapter he appears.

Though this is one of the more off-the-wall threads I've seen in a while.
Agreed. What seals it for me is that Sammael's scar is never described as affecting his nose and mouth. This guy's scar twists his nose and turns the corner of his mouth down. Moreover, it doesn't address Sammael's other signature characteristics - blond hair and beard, his shortness and stockiness...

Two people can have scars. In general, the guy needed something distinctive about him to draw Rand's attention to drive the plot.

No way.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-08-2012, 07:08 PM
Tollingtoy Tollingtoy is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 299
Tollingtoy is a glorious beacon of lightTollingtoy is a glorious beacon of lightTollingtoy is a glorious beacon of lightTollingtoy is a glorious beacon of lightTollingtoy is a glorious beacon of lightTollingtoy is a glorious beacon of light
Default

RJ was a very smart man and rarely did ANYTHING in these books without some purpose behind it. If that really was Sammael in Baerlon, you have to ask yourself, what purpose does it serve? Why would RJ go to the trouble of putting him in that inn that night if it adds absolutely nothing to the story?

Personally, I think TEOTW has a few inconsistencies because RJ didn't really envision the story to grow into what it eventually became. To my knowledge, there is no description of Sammael in that book or any of the next few. Maybe it was a subconscious connection made by RJ.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-08-2012, 09:46 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 261
Seth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tollingtoy View Post
RJ was a very smart man and rarely did ANYTHING in these books without some purpose behind it. If that really was Sammael in Baerlon, you have to ask yourself, what purpose does it serve? Why would RJ go to the trouble of putting him in that inn that night if it adds absolutely nothing to the story?

Personally, I think TEOTW has a few inconsistencies because RJ didn't really envision the story to grow into what it eventually became. To my knowledge, there is no description of Sammael in that book or any of the next few. Maybe it was a subconscious connection made by RJ.
Because, in order for the Whitecloaks to have a reason to confront them at the wall, they needed an informant to advise them where the Fellowship was? In order for the informant to noticeable, he had to be physically distinctive. People other than Sammael are allowed to have facial scars (Masema, Ragan, etc.).

This theory is founded on the fact that the guy has a facial scar. No other description matches, despite Sammael having other distinctive features and his scar's distinctiveness actually being DIFFERENT from the Whitecloak spy's.

It ignores the fact that Aginor and Balthamel were the first two released from the Dark One's prison, and that Sammael was much deeper, at least as deep as Lanfear who was likely not as released until a couple of weeks after the Eye.

I'll believe this one when you can get Maria or Brandon to confirm it. Until then, it's completely speculative and very tenuous, and you're ignoring the blatantly obvious need to have a distinctive, noticeable character as the spy for the Whitecloaks.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:12 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Though this is one of the more off-the-wall threads I've seen in a while.
It's Jon Snow's pet theory. He seems to hold a (minor) grudge against me for arguing him down on it last time he visited the General board.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:26 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,845
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
It's Jon Snow's pet theory. He seems to hold a (minor) grudge against me for arguing him down on it last time he visited the General board.
You have a bad habit of doing that kind of thing. You also shot down an idea of mine which depended (can't remember how) on Logain being present during the Cleansing, merely on the grounds that he wasn't there.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:32 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

I think that your (minor) grudge in that case probably has more to do with the fact that I found it so funny, I kept bringing it up every now and then for about a year after that. Then I got over it, and you decided to reclaim it.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:42 AM
maacaroni maacaroni is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Worcester, UK
Posts: 339
maacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant futuremaacaroni has a brilliant future
Default

It reads like Sammael except that it doesn't tie in with the 'release' of the rest of the forsaken. That's the flaw.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:43 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

And the little issue of 'why'
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-09-2012, 09:31 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,845
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Well, there's also the (undoubtedly minor) detail that Sammael as such wasn't even mentioned until some time in TDR.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-09-2012, 09:36 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Well, there's also the (undoubtedly minor) detail that Sammael as such wasn't even mentioned until some time in TDR.
In interviews RJ said that it took him 4 years to write TEOTW because he realized as he was writing it that there were a lot of things that he had to figure out about the world right then, things he'd assumed he could put off till later. As the Forsaken weren't intended to be big players until later books, he had no real reason to develop all of them. Just the ones who would be important early on.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-09-2012, 09:46 AM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 261
Seth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maacaroni View Post
It reads like Sammael except that it doesn't tie in with the 'release' of the rest of the forsaken. That's the flaw.
There's no mention of Sammael's blond hair and blue eyes (which we know is VERY distinctive in the Wetlands - it's basically present only in Aiel, the Andoran royal family, and some Taraboners, but with brown eyes).

The scar is described differently from Sammael's - affecting his nose and mouth distinctively, where Sammael's does not share that description.

The Whitecloak spy's importance in the book is limited to his use as a plot device to get the Whitecloaks there for the escape from Baerlon; even if it were Sammael, he doesn't actually DO anything there.

This is pure conjecture, and it's ignoring the differences in description and the significantly omitted fact that Sammael is probably one of the most physically distinctive individuals in the world - having effectively Aiel coloration, a very broad frame, but being short, and having a distinctive scar (that is different from the one described here).

E: Regarding the argument that Sammael wouldn't recognize them - are we to believe that Ishamael knows them (to the point of having found their dreams) - and has even told multiple Myrddraal about them, but that Sammael has no clue? Again, conceivable, but doubtful.

Last edited by Seth Baker; 03-09-2012 at 09:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-09-2012, 01:14 PM
mogi67's Avatar
mogi67 mogi67 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 45
mogi67 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Oh look a man with a scar
must be sammael
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-10-2012, 11:48 AM
kivo kivo is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 201
kivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to allkivo is a name known to all
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
That's because he was a whitecloak spy and that was even mentioned in the chapter he appears.

Though this is one of the more off-the-wall threads I've seen in a while.
OMG Sebban Bawler was Naeblis???
__________________
Re-read highlight of the week

"Who are you to ask for a meeting with the High Lady?" Falendre demanded. She emphasized the title for some reason.

"My name is Rand al'Thor. I'm the Dragon Reborn." If they had wept at hearing Semirhage's name, they wailed at hearing his.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-10-2012, 01:32 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 261
Seth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Mat Cauthon is Thom Merrilin because they both have a limp.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-10-2012, 01:35 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Baker View Post
Mat Cauthon is Thom Merrilin because they both have a limp.
Thematically speaking, they are very similar.
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-10-2012, 01:37 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 261
Seth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of lightSeth Baker is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Thematically speaking, they are very similar.
Also, the Green Man was also Sammael and the Whitecloak spy. He has a facial scar too.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.