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  #21  
Old 09-24-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
I always imagined the Two Rivers longbow being like the English/Welsh longbow. About the same height as an adult man (considering when its unstringed, its mistaken for a quarter-staff).
Pretty much identical to a Welsh longbow from all the descriptions in the books.
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2013, 05:54 PM
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Suttree, your lack of respect for other posters is disappointing.
Suttree shows more respect for others than most posters on this forum. It's other posters who feel he shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion that are the problem. His comment about accuracy was entirely on-topic and entirely appropriate. It's the defensiveness that is the problem. Even Brandon has commented on this.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2013, 06:48 PM
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Suttree shows more respect for others than most posters on this forum. It's other posters who feel he shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion that are the problem. His comment about accuracy was entirely on-topic and entirely appropriate. It's the defensiveness that is the problem. Even Brandon has commented on this.
I have to agree with T here...suttree was remarkably restrained in the previous thread on that subject. I get that some people dont want to hear the criticism and all but they need to get over it.
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2013, 09:55 PM
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I have to agree with T here...suttree was remarkably restrained in the previous thread on that subject. I get that some people dont want to hear the criticism and all but they need to get over it.
It's not "hearing the criticism" that is the problem. It's hearing the criticism all the frickin' time, even in threads (like this one) that have absolutely nothing to do with criticism. That's why I pointed it out to you, and to Suttree - with heavy sarcasm, I know, but I prefer that to actual flaming. I think we've reached a bad point where when posters are attempting to revive the discussion they have to specifically exclude the explanation "Brandon got it wrong" so the discussion doesn't devolve into an argument about his writing flaws, perceived or otherwise. We are supposed to be hardcore fan freaks of the Wheel Of Time, not a Brandon Sanderson deconstruction club. Again, I have no problem with the debate about the quality existing - a point I apparently differ from our mods on - so long as those delivering the criticism give as good as they get from those defending the writing, but I do have a problem with these snide little asides about mistakes and writing quality in every other thread. It's as bad as the Egwene-bashing, and honestly I almost wish we could go back to that, because at least it didn't involve one side or another constantly denigrating the very works we are supposed to be here because we love.

I'm not going to get into who's a better poster or more restrained or whatever. That is actually just completely over the line for me and I've no interest in it.
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2013, 04:00 AM
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As WSB said, play nice.


Seriously, this is starting to resemble that episode of the Big Bang Theory where Howard can't stop talking about space. Just wait until someone brings it up, ok? Bringing it up is not "hey guys, isn't this fan video neat!" Bringing it up is more along the lines of "And what is your opinion on the literary prowess of Brandon Sanderson?"

The video is very cool, especially considering it's not a big movie-studio production.
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
so long as those delivering the criticism give as good as they get from those defending the writing,
Now that was funny.

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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
but I do have a problem with these snide little asides about mistakes and writing quality in every other thread.
The comment was perfectly valid. Take a deep breath and step back from the edge. At this point you are quite simply seeing things that aren't there.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Suttree shows more respect for others than most posters on this forum. It's other posters who feel he shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion that are the problem. His comment about accuracy was entirely on-topic and entirely appropriate. It's the defensiveness that is the problem. Even Brandon has commented on this.
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:24 PM
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Not sure how many times we have to say PLAY NICE, but here it is again: PLAY NICE.

That means keep the literary criticism OUT of the discussion when it's not directly related to the topic at hand. That also means STOP the sniping and personal digs at other posters. That means EVERYONE.

You don't really want us to lock yet another thread, do you? The Chosen get really pissy when they have to do so much forum cleaning in a short period.
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7 View Post
Not sure how many times we have to say PLAY NICE, but here it is again: PLAY NICE.

That means keep the literary criticism OUT of the discussion when it's not directly related to the topic at hand. That also means STOP the sniping and personal digs at other posters. That means EVERYONE.

You don't really want us to lock yet another thread, do you? The Chosen get really pissy when they have to do so much forum cleaning in a short period.
This I know is not the appropriate place to say this but at least here I know I have "The Chosen's" attention: it might help if the first response to problems wasn't locking the thread and shutting down the discussion, but rather actually policing the thread to remove unnecessary comments and censure posters who are out of line. Then maybe we could have an actual literary criticism quarantine thread (like we had before) and it would stop erupting all over the place. Just my two cents.
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Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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  #30  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:52 PM
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Yeah, that arguing is getting annoying. Just drop it people.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to an animated series of TWOT, makes special effects and characters much easier to deal with. Some editing stuff out would be required, certainly, but an animated series can certainly be possible.

For some reason I keep envisioning an animation style similar to Heavy Metal of Lord of the Rings the animated version and other 80s animated shows and movies.
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  #31  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:57 PM
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Animated is a possibility. I know people have thought of a number of different ways to present WoT in a visual setting, from full length feature films, like LotR, to TV mini-series and other forms of TV shows. I've even heard of some people interested in an anime version.







I think somebody should try claymation. Just for the hell of it. So what if it takes forever to make one scene, let alone a full movie?
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2013, 10:01 PM
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I think somebody should try claymation. Just for the hell of it. So what if it takes forever to make one scene, let alone a full movie?
By the time book 14 came out, not only the original animators but the original audience would be dead from old age. Good lord.
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  #33  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:19 PM
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After watching GOT, I'm pretty conviced TV is the only realistic way to do any justice to the story. Think about how long it took for this movie to show one small little scene of one book. There is no way movie(s) could stay true to the books
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  #34  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:02 PM
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After watching GOT, I'm pretty conviced TV is the only realistic way to do any justice to the story. Think about how long it took for this movie to show one small little scene of one book. There is no way movie(s) could stay true to the books
I've discussed this with Lupus and David, and there is actually so much you'd have to cut from WOT in order to fit it into even a TV show format; even then, you'd need full 20+ episode seasons and lots of them. I'm kind of the opinion it's unadaptable, but if it is to be adapted, I see animation as the only really acceptable option. WOT is so much more sprawling than Game Of Thrones, as odd a sentence as that is to type. I think the limited POVs of ASOIAF make GOT an easier adaptation to make. They also have the advantage of an author who's still alive, able to provide consultation and write episodes.
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Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #35  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:14 PM
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Wert has done a series of posts on his blog and at DM on this topic. Here is the latest one.

Quote:

Part 4 of the essay series (yeah, this took a while).

In the first three parts of this article series, I argued that the current plans by Red Eagle Entertainment and Universal to turn The Wheel of Time into a series of movies were impractical and unrealistic, and that adapting the books into an ongoing television series was more feasible. This especially makes more sense in the wake of the success of fantasy TV projects such as Sky's Discworld TV movies, the BBC's recently-concluded Merlin and of course HBO's Game of Thrones. I concluded that getting the series made by one of the three big remaining cable channels (Starz, AMC or Showtime) was essential to give the project the right combination of high production values and a decent amount of time to adapt the complex storyline before going on to address the issue of how you structure the series from a top-down approach. In this part I address several major technical and practical issues standing in the way of adapting the books to television.




Sets and Locations
If there is one major cost saving that TV shows have over movies, it's sets. A film with a budget in the tens of millions of dollars can afford to construct a specific set for each and every scene, and use a different location in every other shot. TV shows spread their costs more widely by the use of regular, recurring sets. Think of the bridge of the Enterprise in Star Trek, the throne room in Game of Thrones or the school library in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. You can spend a fair bit of money on an impressive set and then spread that cost over dozens of episodes.

With Wheel of Time, there is one rather huge problem: there is no single standing set that could be constructed and re-used a lot in the first season (if you recall, in the hypothetical plan we are discussing the first season would adapt the first two books, The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt). The first two books are constantly on the move, taking the characters from the Two Rivers to Baerlon to Shadar Logoth to Whitebridge to Caemlyn to Shienar, and thence to Tar Valon, Cairhien and Falme. Later in the series we would get standing sets and regularly-appearing locations, such as the Royal Palace in Caemlyn and the White Tower in Tar Valon (which would debut in the first season, but would not be revisited until later), but it's a while before such places recur regularly.

This is fairly headache-inducing, although compensated for to some extent by how much of the first two books takes place outdoors. This brings its own headaches in terms of the expense and practical issues of location filming (dealing with the weather and so on), but at least is better than having to build dozens and dozens of different sets and then discard them. A surprising number of locations in the first two books are in fact pubs of different description (the Winespring Inn in Emond's Field, the Queen's Blessing, the inn in Cairhien that Rand, Hurin and Loial stay in etc). A standing 'pub set' could be built, possibly in modules, with walls and partitions that can be switched around. Combined with redressing and the use of different camera angles, this can turn one set into several different locations. The same principal can be applied to shops, houses and even palaces (the Royal Palace of Caemlyn could pull double-duty as Fal Dara, for example, if you dropped in a few partitions and redressed things).

For location filming, Wheel of Time does have some problems with how much of it is set in large cities (especially later on, when scenes unfold near-simultaneously in Caemlyn, Cairhien and Ebou Dar). Caemlyn, for example, would likely have to be a real medieval-looking city, possibly in Europe, just as both Mdina in Malta and Dubrovnik in Croatia have stood in for King's Landing on Game of Thrones. Given the weird and otherwordly nature of Shadar Logoth, on the other hand, it might be possible to get away with realising that city through small set-pieces and CGI backdrops (CGI is of course a powerful and useful tool but we are not at the stage yet where full CGI sets and locations are believable or affordable on such a scale).

As for where the series should be filmed, there are quite a few options. Eastern Europe is both affordable and would have the right look for most of the main continent. The Republic of Ireland (probably not Northern Ireland, since a lot of the more interesting locations have already been used by GoT) would also be an attractive option. Morocco or the American West (heavily CGI-enhanced) could also be viable options for the Aiel Waste.


Costumes
Costuming is probably the least-challenging aspect of the production, thanks to both Robert Jordan's clear descriptions in the books and the availability of costumes and costumer designers familiar with the appropriate period.



"Awesome. I want 100,000 of them for the next shot."

Prosthetics
Wheel of Time features a large number of non-human creatures, including the friendly Ogier and the hostile Shadowspawn: Trollocs, Myrddraal, Draghkar and so on. Some of these creatures appear infrequently enough that they can be rendered in CGI: the Green Man immediately comes to mind. Draghkar and Darkhounds also appear infrequently enough that this should be viable. Trollocs and Ogier are more difficult to achieve. Loial is a fairly major character with a lot of screentime. Rendering him in CGI would require a Gollum-level performance and technology to achieve satisfactorily, neither of which may be available on a TV budget and time schedule. On the other hand, prosthetics/animatronics large enough to depict the Ogier as described in the books may be stiff and unconvincing. This is something that would require screentesting to find the best solution.

It should be possible to depict Trollocs by just using large extras with prosthetics. A mix-and-match of prosthetics could be made available to blend the different animal parts together to make each Trolloc unique (or as unique as possible), rather like how the creatures themselves are created in the books. CGI would be used for scenes with large numbers of Trollocs (which is most of them) to render more of them in the background.



"More lightning bolts!"
"Not too many, they cost $10,000 a time!"
The One Power
The One Power is one of the most detailed magic systems ever created, with a lot of complex rules on how it works, how it's detected and what the different types of the Power can do. Depicting the One Power on screen risks looking cheesy - people sticking their hands out and firebolts roaring off - and depicting people glowing when they embrace the Source could be confusing (as only those able to use the Power can sense it when others are using it).

The best way to handle this is as it is in the books, with 'our' characters initially unable to see or sense the Power itself, only its effects (i.e. someone pointing and the ground exploding or mist appearing). As our core characters become more acquainted with the Power, then we can start to see POV shots from them, showing the glow of the Power (I'm thinking a subtle haloing effect rather than people blazing with the light of a thousand suns). We'll only see this if we have a POV character in the scene who can sense the Power, otherwise they'll just see the effects.

A related issue is how to handle the issue of Aes Sedai ageing. As book-readers know, Aes Sedai gain an 'ageless' appearance as they get older, so that it becomes impossible to tell whether a woman is in her 20s or 40s (and that appearance may be only a reflection of their true age, as Aes Sedai can live for several centuries). Such an effect would be prohibitively expensive to achieve with CGI - 'de-aging' Moiraine alone in her every appearance in the series would cost a fortune, not to mention the problem being exasperated when a dozen Aes Sedai appear in the same scene - so this would have to be a practical make-up effect. If unconvincing or too odd-looking, this may have to be an element from the books that is dropped or perhaps changed to something less notable.

There are obviously a lot more complexities and practicalities that would have to be addressed to make these books into a TV show, but these were a few thoughts on how you'd achieve some basic questions.

This may be the last entry in this blog series, though I may do one more focused on how you'd write and structure the first episode, to put some of these ideas into practice.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:31 AM
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Simply turn it into a series of television series, with one episode per chapter, and seasons' pilots from the prologues. Epilogues can either be their own episode, or be added to the one made from the last chapter of that series.

Note: some calendar reform may be needed to fit enough weeks into a year for for instance TDR.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:00 PM
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Film EoTW, TGH, TDR as movies, ignore the rest of the series. Those are the 3 most coherent novels and they actually tell a story, the journey of Rand to accept who he is (mostly).
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  #38  
Old 09-27-2013, 05:19 PM
Tollingtoy Tollingtoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suttree View Post
Wert has done a series of posts on his blog and at DM on this topic. Here is the latest one.
That's interesting! Thanks for posting!
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2013, 05:25 PM
Hugh the Hand Hugh the Hand is offline
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Sure... and it can end with:

"In time he became a King by his own hand, but that is another story"
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:36 AM
Seeker Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
What an incredibly witty insight! Wow, I sure did chuckle for several minutes at that one. You really are on form Suttree! Now, where's the rep button, because boy, do you deserve some for that zinger! Booyah!

...seriously, mods, don't we already have a rule about bashing outside of designated threads?
Oh, you know, Zombie, that's just part of Suttree's crusade to hijack every thread and remind us just how much he hates the end of the series.

The only real problem I had was the acting - which was atrocious even by fan film standards. I half wished the Black Sister had a mustache so she could twirl it. I also love the Myrdraal's reaction.

"Wait! She's proposing a plan that could actually result in victory! SHE MUST DIE BEFORE WORD OF THIS SPREADS!"

And seriously, Aes Sedai, do you have to go all Goku on us?
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He bought a nice blue suit with the money he could find.
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Well, now I lie here so out of breath and... over opiated.
Maybe I couldn't catch up no, but maybe she could have waited.
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