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  #41  
Old 10-04-2016, 10:50 AM
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This calls for a food analogy! Liberals are the type of people that always go for something new and trendy no matter what it is. Even if it tastes like crap they eat it up because it's trendy. Conservatives like the good old fashioned dishes that have proven themselves time and again. They are loyal to those fine old recipes. So loyal in fact that if they can't find one of them on the menu they rather eat their own actual shit in which there are at least traces of that good honest food.

Hillary isn't trendy enough for the liberals and the conservatives would rather eat Trump's shit than vote for a woman.
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  #42  
Old 10-04-2016, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
This calls for a food analogy! Liberals are the type of people that always go for something new and trendy no matter what it is. Even if it tastes like crap they eat it up because it's trendy. Conservatives like the good old fashioned dishes that have proven themselves time and again.
Hah. That's actually pretty accurate. Of course, by extension, it means we'd still be eating all our food boiled if we were conservative because we never tried anything new.

With the possible exception of abortion, I don't think conservatives have been on the ethical side of ANY social issue in the history of this country. And before that blows up... I just mean that there
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ethical qualms around abortion, to a degree that there aren't with plain evil issues like Jim Crow or being against gay marriage.
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  #43  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:04 PM
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Well you can't say they are on the ethical side when both sides have unethical points.
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  #44  
Old 10-04-2016, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
This calls for a food analogy! Liberals are the type of people that always go for something new and trendy no matter what it is. Even if it tastes like crap they eat it up because it's trendy. Conservatives like the good old fashioned dishes that have proven themselves time and again. They are loyal to those fine old recipes. So loyal in fact that if they can't find one of them on the menu they rather eat their own actual shit in which there are at least traces of that good honest food.

Hillary isn't trendy enough for the liberals and the conservatives would rather eat Trump's shit than vote for a woman.
Obama made this joke at the correspondents' dinner...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ob...rticle/2590047

Quote:
President Obama mocked the Republican Party's despair over its remaining 2016 presidential field, joking at the White House Correspondents' dinner that a number of guests "wrote in Paul Ryan" for their entree choice.

"Guests were asked to check whether they wanted steak or fish, but instead, a whole bunch of you wrote in Paul Ryan," Obama said to laughter Saturday night. "That's not an option, people. Steak or fish. You may not like steak or fish, but that's your choice."
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2016, 09:20 PM
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I'm well aware that Obama doesn't write any of those jokes but he has incredible comic timing...I will miss that once he's out of office.
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  #46  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:33 AM
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With the possible exception of abortion, I don't think conservatives have been on the ethical side of ANY social issue in the history of this country.
I haven't properly studied it, but weren't they opposed to Prohibition before Liberals made that into the law of the land?

And it is even possible that some of them were against eugenics before they stole that from the Liberals as well.
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  #47  
Old 10-05-2016, 01:20 PM
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I haven't properly studied it, but weren't they opposed to Prohibition before Liberals made that into the law of the land?
I thought about this, but I am not certain that this is a clear cut issue between social conservatives and liberals in the way we think of it. My high level understanding of it was that it was an issue that received support from tons of people (obviously, since they managed to actually amend the Constitution), including social Progressives who were liberal, and highly religious folks who thought drinking led to sin.

But again, I don't know enough about the demographics of the Prohibition movement to be sure.

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Originally Posted by Nazbaque
Well you can't say they are on the ethical side when both sides have unethical points.
I don't think this is right. Most abolitionists in 1860 were probably virulent racists by our standards, but they were certainly morally correct in opposing the institution of slavery.

And just because Hillary Clinton is a lying sleazy politician, doesn't mean she isn't vastly a more ethical person than Donald Trump.
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  #48  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:10 PM
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I was referring to the question of abortion. Sometimes one side of an argument is morally pure though the people usually have some other flaw, sometimes the other sides is conciderably more shady than the other and sometimes people can't decide which side is worse even for themselves. I've thought about the ethics of abortion a great deal, but I've yet to come across anyone who was willing to discuss it without losing their temper.
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  #49  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:54 PM
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I thought about this, but I am not certain that this is a clear cut issue between social conservatives and liberals in the way we think of it. My high level understanding of it was that it was an issue that received support from tons of people (obviously, since they managed to actually amend the Constitution), including social Progressives who were liberal, and highly religious folks who thought drinking led to sin.

But again, I don't know enough about the demographics of the Prohibition movement to be sure.
There is obviously a danger here of over-generalizing, but the prohibition movement tended to be mostly driven by the Republicans (especially progressive, WASPy Republicans), and opposed by the Democrats. It was to an extent also anti-Catholic, and anti-immigrant (anti-Irish, anti-Italian, anti-German). Wilson, for instance, vetoed it in 1919, but his veto was overturned by Congress, and FDR repealed it. Still, probably easier to think of it as anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant than as really a progressive vs conservative, or as republican vs dem issue.
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  #50  
Old 10-06-2016, 12:07 PM
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I was referring to the question of abortion. Sometimes one side of an argument is morally pure though the people usually have some other flaw, sometimes the other sides is conciderably more shady than the other and sometimes people can't decide which side is worse even for themselves. I've thought about the ethics of abortion a great deal, but I've yet to come across anyone who was willing to discuss it without losing their temper.
Ah, well in that case, you are sort of making my point. Both Pro Life and Pro Choice advocates have good and bad points in their corner. I find that pro-life folks tend to be preachy and extremely hypocritical (like most religious people) and that sort of weakens the entire platform… but that doesn’t mean that advocating for fetal rights isn’t right. Side note: I use double negatives way too often. Contrast that with something like marriage rights, which is just one group of people (mainly pro-life folks, I’d imagine there is a very strong correlation there) trying to deny recognition and benefits to another group of people.
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  #51  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:14 PM
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Ah, well in that case, you are sort of making my point. Both Pro Life and Pro Choice advocates have good and bad points in their corner. I find that pro-life folks tend to be preachy and extremely hypocritical (like most religious people) and that sort of weakens the entire platform… but that doesn’t mean that advocating for fetal rights isn’t right. Side note: I use double negatives way too often. Contrast that with something like marriage rights, which is just one group of people (mainly pro-life folks, I’d imagine there is a very strong correlation there) trying to deny recognition and benefits to another group of people.
Mostly what is wrong with the pro-life stance is that people don't go with it to the end. They are forcing life on a person yet they don't in any way make sure they will enjoy it at least on an average basis. Further they are limiting the mother's freedom by several months until she gives birth and the results of this limitation might effectively ruin the rest of her life. So why is the baby more important than the mother?

But then should any mother in any circumstances be allowed to abort a baby? While I see that sometimes it's a case where a person should just face the consequenses and take responsibility there is a practical difficulty. The pregnancy won't go dormant so that people can debate the case.

In the end ending a life isn't exactly right, but if you are going to force a life on the child and pregnancy on the mother then you have duties to both of them and failing in those duties just means you're a hypocrite.
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  #52  
Old 10-08-2016, 09:10 AM
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Assange (and Putin) attempting a Hail Mary...

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37595047

Quote:
The excerpts include comments made at an event sponsored by Goldman Sachs in October 2013 in which Mrs Clinton spoke of the need to consult Wall Street over financial reform.
"The people that know the industry better than anybody are the people who work in the industry," Mrs Clinton said.
At another speech presented to a Brazilian bank in 2013, she spoke of her "dream" for a common trade market.
"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere," Mrs Clinton said.
The leak comes after the US accused Russia of a cyber attack against political organisations intended to influence the presidential election.
There's nothing surprising here, though considering the antagonism for free trade, this obviously would normally have been at least somewhat helpful for Trump, except of course for the constant flood of these sorts of reveals from Trump...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ed4_story.html


Quote:
“I did try and f--- her. She was married,” Trump says.

Trump continues: “And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’”

“I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married,” Trump says. “Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.”

At that point in the audio, Trump and Bush appear to notice Arianne Zucker, the actress who is waiting to escort them into the soap-opera set.

“Your girl’s hot as s---, in the purple,” says Bush, who’s now a co-host of NBC’s “Today” show.

“Whoa!” Trump says. “Whoa!”

“I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her,” Trump says. “You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.”

“And when you’re a star, they let you do it,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”

“Whatever you want,” says another voice, apparently Bush’s.

“Grab them by the p---y,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”
It is more than a bit depressing that a video of Trump saying something like this is so unsurprising. The furniture shopping bit is a somewhat creative tactic at least.
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  #53  
Old 10-09-2016, 08:46 PM
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What Trump said is disgusting and disgraceful, and if he were smart he would pull out. But he won't, so it doesn't matter. That being said, it's interesting how much the liberal media, aka the media, is going after Trump for these comments, yet ignore all the accusations that have been made over the years against Bill Clinton for sexual harassment. Trump is disgusting, but if Clinton goes after him for that, it's fair game to go after her husband who she has stood by time and time again.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:05 PM
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What Trump said is disgusting and disgraceful, and if he were smart he would pull out. But he won't, so it doesn't matter. That being said, it's interesting how much the liberal media, aka the media, is going after Trump for these comments, yet ignore all the accusations that have been made over the years against Bill Clinton for sexual harassment. Trump is disgusting, but if Clinton goes after him for that, it's fair game to go after her husband who she has stood by time and time again.
Apparently there's a tape out there of him using the N-word too...so that'll be fun if its tue.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:27 PM
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Apparently there's a tape out there of him using the N-word too...so that'll be fun if its tue.
And it doesn't matter. Everyone knows who and what Trump is, just like they should know what Clinton is. Both the Clinton's are crooks, and if Hillary was anyone else she would've been indicted. That was evident by what the FBI said, their reworking of the statute, and all the loops they jumped through to ensure she wouldn't be indicted.

The debate tonight is already a joke. What are we learning? Trump's an ass and Clinton is a lying crook? Bring back Pence and Kaine, two respectable men who are trying to cover for their crooked partners.
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  #56  
Old 10-09-2016, 09:27 PM
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Donald sniffles after every sentence. No denying that now.

Yeah, I'm past the point of caring of what is said anymore.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:32 PM
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Donald sniffles after every sentence. No denying that now.

Yeah, I'm past the point of caring of what is said anymore.
He's probably high on cocaine.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:39 PM
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Watching DBZ Kai from last night. Far better than this farce of a "debate".
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:58 PM
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And it doesn't matter. Everyone knows who and what Trump is, just like they should know what Clinton is. Both the Clinton's are crooks, and if Hillary was anyone else she would've been indicted. That was evident by what the FBI said, their reworking of the statute, and all the loops they jumped through to ensure she wouldn't be indicted.

The debate tonight is already a joke. What are we learning? Trump's an ass and Clinton is a lying crook? Bring back Pence and Kaine, two respectable men who are trying to cover for their crooked partners.
Southpaw, the problem with trying to argue for equivalency here is that these issues with Bill Clinton have been discussed ad nauseam, and anyone that feels strongly, in a negative sense, about Bill's philandering are already strongly supportive of Trump, and the rest of us don't care, and just think that all this was nonsense back in the 90s. Indeed there are myriad interviews with Trump from the previous decades saying that those same allegations were nonsense. As for your latter point, the problem is that while Trump is a misogynistic pig, and a racist, Hillary is not a crook. The email issue, just like Benghazi, is stupid. She's not a great candidate, and she is clearly divisive, but she's not a crook. And she is clearly the only qualified person running. Do we like her as much as Elizabeth Warren. No. Why people like Bernie, on the other hand, continues to mystify me, but that is an entirely different matter. If the Bernie crowd isn't willing to vote for her, so be it, but even Bernie looks like Winston Churchill next to Jill Stein and Gary Johnson. As for Pence and Kaine. Kaine is boring, but decent. I don't particularly like the fact that he was pro-life, but he has at least demonstrated a willingness to support the law, and not try to impose his own religious beliefs on the rest of us. Pence on the other hand is a theocrat. The Republicans had reasonable options they could have chosen during their primary (Kasich, Bush, and Rubio - I don't personally like any of those men as regards their policies, but at least they were reasonable and decent men), but instead they chose Trump. It's not like it was a secret that this was the man they were choosing. He's a pig and a con-man. They knew it, and now they're stuck with him.

If they want a different option they should just convince Johnson to step down and let Weld run as the Libertarian presidential candidate instead of VP. Heck, even I find Weld impressive. That fact, and the fact that you like Pence, probably would keep you from wanting Weld, however. He's definitely of the Rockefeller crowd.

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Old 10-09-2016, 10:04 PM
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Watching DBZ Kai from last night. Far better than this farce of a "debate".
It was really awkward for the first few minutes. I imagine a lot of people tuned in to see how scorched earth Trump would really go. It's actually slightly less of a train wreck than I was expecting.
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