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  #21  
Old 07-14-2012, 12:59 PM
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Nope, just that one bit. And they did the same thing with Galad's POV for KOD, Renald Fanwar for TGS, and Lan for TOM.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2012, 02:02 PM
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got it wrong i thought the wind ends at shayol gul, it predictably ended at FoM.

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1. Rand and Perrin already essentially had this conversation back in LOC.
I'm pretty sure when I drink with my old high school buddies whom I meet like twice or so a year only. Half of what we talk about we probably have talked about it a million times before. So it is pretty common to rehash what has already been said.

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  #23  
Old 07-14-2012, 04:41 PM
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I wouldn't see the wine as a mistake, but rather as evidence that there is that slippage between Rand and Moridin we've seen before, and possibly as a sign that Rand is actually putting Moridin thoughts down to Lews Therin, which could be a very bad sign indeed.
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2012, 04:44 PM
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awesomeness! I'm off to obsess about it some more. Big kudos for getting it up so soon
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  #25  
Old 07-14-2012, 09:45 PM
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I don't think the wine thing is anything more than a red herring. Many of the AOL-era characters seem to like wine (granted, our examples of those who comment on it are the Forsaken, but it does include at least Ishamael, Graendal, and Asmodean), and Rand himself drinks it in previous books.
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  #26  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:10 PM
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So Rand and Perrin finally together, perhaps Mat too. The taveren -pattern- influence should be at its strongest at this point now and what do we have? The land still so strongly corrupted? The skies above Rand and Perrin are...?

Is the corruption of the DO or from the taveren themselves? Or maybe the DO corrupts the world through the taveren?

Anyway thanks to Terez, deadsy and co for the quick work.
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  #27  
Old 07-14-2012, 11:41 PM
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The Taren Ferry thing bugs me. Who attacked them? How, and why? They were recovered before. And I'd bet all of the Two Rivers were taking precautions like Emond's Field was (walls, watches, etc). Hard to believe the whole town would be destroyed without the rest of the area coming to their aid, and that they could hold out long enough for that to happen. It didn't take long for Rand/Mo and company to get there in EoTW.

Doesn't make much sense to me. I certainly hope the rest is better. I loved the earlier reading Harriet did.

The wine thing I don't even view as a mistake. I'm sure there were some good vintages around before, but what is left now that stuff has started to rot everywhere probably isn't as good.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2012, 12:12 AM
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Taren Ferry (and let's be honest, probably the rest of the Two Rivers) going down is probably shorthand for pretty much everywhere in the world is screwed, like that passage out of the prologue with Sarand's(?) army. I don't think it's a matter of Taren Ferry being attacked by Shadowspawn/Darkfriends/whatever, so much as probably pretty much everywhere getting bubble of eviled (outside of areas that are Order Aura'd by one of the main characters).

Even areas that have been Order Aura'd previously by one of the main characters (Caemlyn, Emond's Field, etc.) probably are no longer safe after the main characters have gathered at Fields of Merrilor.
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2012, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
So Rand and Perrin finally together, perhaps Mat too. The taveren -pattern- influence should be at its strongest at this point now and what do we have? The land still so strongly corrupted? The skies above Rand and Perrin are...?

Is the corruption of the DO or from the taveren themselves? Or maybe the DO corrupts the world through the taveren?
Mat isn't there yet. Rand wouldn't have been wasting time talking to Dorkis if Moiraine had arrived. (Plus, at the end it says Rand just had his dream, and Grady isn't supposed to pick Mat up until noon).

But even when they're together they're not just automatically going to fix everything. They'll be about even with the baddies and it will be tough.

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  #30  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
So Rand and Perrin finally together, perhaps Mat too. The taveren -pattern- influence should be at its strongest at this point now and what do we have? The land still so strongly corrupted? The skies above Rand and Perrin are...?
This was a bit odd. I mean did we not see at the end of the last book, that when Rand arrived the DO's clouds broke over the area? Not to mention the fact that it was said again and again that Rand drove the clouds away, and even his bondees dispersed those clouds

Is it because its evening/night during the excerpt, and Rands ability to counter the DO is weaker during the night and stronger during the day?

And if its not, then what does it mean that Rand has suddenly lost his anti-DO power just when he is supposed to break the seals? Or is it perhaps a hint that he actually broke them already so that no time would be wasted debating that and he can get right on with his real plans. That would certainly explain how the DO would have grown strong enough to cloud the land even near Rand.

Then again, maybe they are just normal and natural clouds and its a red herring.
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  #31  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Datakim View Post
This was a bit odd. I mean did we not see at the end of the last book, that when Rand arrived the DO's clouds broke over the area? Not to mention the fact that it was said again and again that Rand drove the clouds away, and even his bondees dispersed those clouds
I'm beginning to think it's the opposite - the bondees disperse the clouds, even through Rand. There's even a hint that the skies might clear more for order than for that, hence food not spoiling in Perrin's camp before.

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And if its not, then what does it mean that Rand has suddenly lost his anti-DO power just when he is supposed to break the seals?
I don't believe he ever had that power, and it wasn't anti–Dark One anyway; it was anti-himself. The land is rotting because of him; the clouds are probably because of him too.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I'm beginning to think it's the opposite - the bondees disperse the clouds, even through Rand. There's even a hint that the skies might clear more for order than for that, hence food not spoiling in Perrin's camp before.
I thought there were several times when it was clearly Rand who drove away the clouds. For example, the clouds vanish over Dragonmount and then Tar Valon. And after Rand leaves, I clearly remember an Egwene POV where after Rand leaves, the clouds close over Tar Valon and sun vanishes and Egwene thinks about the "Land is one with the Dragon" thing. There were no bondees there, so it had to be Rand responsible. Though we did see from Elayne and Caemlyn that the bondees do the same thing.

To me atleast, that seems strong evidence that it is Rand that drives away the clouds, and the bondees get some of that power through the bond.

And yet in that excerpt, it says:
"They could see the sickened land; they could feel the clouds above. They knew the world was dying." And that refers to the area around FoM.

And thats happening in the camp with Rand, Perrin, Min and Elayne (and possibly even Aviendha if she travelled there). Should the presence of all those people mean that the anti-cloud effect should be at its strongest ever?

Not to mention the Egwene POV at the end, where we do see Elayne starting to disperse the clouds, but then they suddenly disappear at the exact same time that Elayne (who senses Rand) looks at Perrins camp, showing that Rand appeared. If they disappeared then, why are they back now?

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I don't believe he ever had that power, and it wasn't anti–Dark One anyway; it was anti-himself. The land is rotting because of him; the clouds are probably because of him too.
Well I mostly called it anti-DO because the two most significant problems (food spoiling and no sunshine) where both driven back by the new zen!Rand. I am not sure I buy the idea that it was Rand causing it all along (though he probably boosted the effect when he was dark!Rand). I mean if it was ONLY Rand, should the spoiling&clouds not have stopped everywhere now, after Rand reached his new zen-state, instead of just having stopped around a small protected area whereever he goes?

Not to mention that I seem to recall that the clouds were really bad in blight, further suggesting that DO is the one causing them.
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  #33  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Datakim View Post
I thought there were several times when it was clearly Rand who drove away the clouds. For example, the clouds vanish over Dragonmount and then Tar Valon. And after Rand leaves, I clearly remember an Egwene POV where after Rand leaves, the clouds close over Tar Valon and sun vanishes and Egwene thinks about the "Land is one with the Dragon" thing. There were no bondees there, so it had to be Rand responsible. Though we did see from Elayne and Caemlyn that the bondees do the same thing.
Rand is only able to clear the clouds around him because of the bond. The rest of the earth is still rotting and dying, probably because of his link with Moridin. The Dragon is one with all of the Land, not just the Land in his immediate vicinity.

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Well I mostly called it anti-DO because the two most significant problems (food spoiling and no sunshine) where both driven back by the new zen!Rand. I am not sure I buy the idea that it was Rand causing it all along (though he probably boosted the effect when he was dark!Rand).
You should tell Brandon that then, since that's what he said.

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I mean if it was ONLY Rand, should the spoiling&clouds not have stopped everywhere now, after Rand reached his new zen-state, instead of just having stopped around a small protected area whereever he goes?
You are making assumptions about Rand's new state.

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Not to mention that I seem to recall that the clouds were really bad in blight, further suggesting that DO is the one causing them.
No, there are no strange clouds in the Blight. Only around Shayol Ghul.
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  #34  
Old 07-15-2012, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Rand is only able to clear the clouds around him because of the bond. The rest of the earth is still rotting and dying, probably because of his link with Moridin. The Dragon is one with all of the Land, not just the Land in his immediate vicinity.
Why would the bondees have got some mysterious power to drive away the clouds, at the exact same moment Rand became Zen? Why would Elayne give credit to Rand if she (and Min,Aviendha) were the cause.

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You should tell Brandon that then, since that's what he said.
I checked your awesome quotes database and searched for clouds. According to your own database, its Rand that clears the clouds as seen below.

Quote:
Question
Someone asked about why the clouds are clearing and whether they were clearing around certain important women in the story.
Brandon Sanderson

Brandon said that the clouds are clearing around Rand, but it has not been specified whether that's because of ta'veren, the Fisher King or another reason entirely. He said that the clouds had cleared over Aviendha in the Waste and we have not seen whether the clouds have cleared over Tuon, but Tuon is still somewhat behind the other characters at the end of Towers of Midnight. He also said the clouds have not cleared over Seandar.
Now I suppose you might make the argument that the clouds ARE clearing due to the bond because Rand feels loved or somesuch (though that feels bit deceptive to me). However that does not really change the meaning of my original question. Whether or not the clouds clear around Rand because he is now zen!Rand, or whether they clear because of the bonds, they do clear.

But in that excerpt, both Rand AND atleast two bondees are present, so the clouds should be gone regardless of which view is correct right? And yet, the clouds are still there? Why?

Quote:
No, there are no strange clouds in the Blight. Only around Shayol Ghul.
Quote:
"The invasion has begun" she said. "Watchtowers across the Blightborder go silent, one at a time. Waves of Trollocs advance beneath clouds that boil black."
There are also several references from Fain in the blight about sky being black and dark, and from the borderlander guy about "bubbling storms" and "silvery clouds with geometric shapes"

Then theres this:

Quote:
It was time for Tarmon Gai'don. And looking out into that storm, Malenarin thought he could see to the very edge of time itself. An edge that was not far distant. In fact, it seemed to be growing darker. And there was a darkness beneath it, on the ground northward.
The clouds seem to be advancing as the trollocs are advancing. We also see this in Ituraldes POV. With Rand there, Ituralde sees the sun, which he has not seen in months.
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  #35  
Old 07-15-2012, 02:27 AM
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Why would the bondees have got some mysterious power to drive away the clouds, at the exact same moment Rand became Zen? Why would Elayne give credit to Rand if she (and Min,Aviendha) were the cause.
Elayne has no idea what's going on. Clearly the cloud-clearing happens via the bond, but as for the moment, did you notice the chapter name?

Quote:
I checked your awesome quotes database and searched for clouds. According to your own database, its Rand that clears the clouds as seen below.
He said they're clearing around Rand, but he wouldn't say why. Also, you lumped in the crop spoilage with the clouds, and that's what I was talking about. Brandon said several times that Rand causes that.

Quote:
But in that excerpt, both Rand AND atleast two bondees are present, so the clouds should be gone regardless of which view is correct right?
Perhaps right above the camp, but no further.

Quote:
There are also several references from Fain in the blight about sky being black and dark, and from the borderlander guy about "bubbling storms" and "silvery clouds with geometric shapes"
When Fain was in the Blight, the clouds were everywhere. Before the clouds were everywhere, there were no strange clouds in the Blight.
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  #36  
Old 07-15-2012, 02:40 AM
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He said they're clearing around Rand, but he wouldn't say why. Also, you lumped in the crop spoilage with the clouds, and that's what I was talking about. Brandon said several times that Rand causes that.
Sorry about that then. I am mostly interested in the clouds. You are right about the food.

Quote:
Perhaps right above the camp, but no further.
But I thought the area where the clouds clear was rather large? I mean they clear around the entire city of Tear for example. And Caemlyn too. Are the camps at FoM so much bigger than major cities then? Especially with Rand and Perrin apparently at the very center. At best, should most of the camp not be free of clouds, with maybe some at the very edges?

Quote:
When Fain was in the Blight, the clouds were everywhere. Before the clouds were everywhere, there were no strange clouds in the Blight.
Umm, yes. There were no clouds in the earlier books. But there are clouds there now and they seem to be advancing as the trollocs advance. The clouds have become pervasive throughout the land, and they clear around Rand and his bondees.

Whether or not its Rand being one with the land, or some unique power of Elayne, Min and Aviendha, they do clear. And yet that excerpt seemed to suggest that there are clouds over FoM in the vicinity of both Rand and bondees.

It just made me wonder. Maybe I am just seeing something where there is nothing, or maybe it was a sign that something had changed. Heck, maybe the Cyndane dream had something to do with it and Moridins hold over Rands mind has increased. Or maybe Rand broke the Seals already, which has reduced the anti-cloud effect as the DO grew stronger. Or something.
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  #37  
Old 07-15-2012, 02:40 AM
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I'm just tickled to have something new happening. Chapter 1, wow. I have to agree, Brandon is no reader but in fairness, the room was echoey as all hell and the sound gal/guy did him no favors. His tendency to sibilant esses should have been dialed back on the mixing board.

Thanks to Terez, Deadsy, Luckers and Sare!

The end IS near.

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Old 07-15-2012, 02:54 AM
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But I thought the area where the clouds clear was rather large?
You say that as if it is not the biggest camp in all of existence. Even the Shaido camp outside Malden was bigger than the town itself.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:26 AM
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Elayne has no idea what's going on. Clearly the cloud-clearing happens via the bond, but as for the moment, did you notice the chapter name?
Is the chapter name "Excerpt"?

If not, then I don't think you've mentioned that name in this thread. And I did not succeed in finding that name in another way (like listening to what else Brandon said) either.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:58 AM
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Last time Brandon said something he said it was not at that point in the process yet. I think Harriet is waiting for his final draft. Then she does chapter names, and then it goes through all the other edits by proofreaders, betas, and copyedits. Or maybe proofreaders is redundant there; I'm not sure. At least, I think that's what happens.
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