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  #21  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:11 AM
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I think the unsatisfactory allusions is to do with Rand dying. He's gonna die in the end, people.

That said, perhaps I'm a cynical git but I found that peon a little bleeeuurrrgghh. Sorry, old bean, but you loved the author but you didn't know the bloke. I met Nelson Mandela once but I can't says I know the guy.

That said, I'm looking forward to the book's release. I doubt it will ever live up to the hype of the HCFF and many of us will witter on about Mat's speech 'jarring'. Heyho.

Roll on January.
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:16 AM
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Well the chance of me not reading the book as soon as it has been realised has just dropped.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:49 AM
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Reviews that come out, even "Dear RJ" ones do not need to be coming out almost 3 1/2 months before the book drops. Kind of a big middle finger to fans who have to wait. With that being said, if I had the opportunity to read the book several months before everyone else, I would.
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Res_Ipsa View Post
Reviews that come out, even "Dear RJ" ones do not need to be coming out almost 3 1/2 months before the book drops. Kind of a big middle finger to fans who have to wait. With that being said, if I had the opportunity to read the book several months before everyone else, I would.
You just wouldn't publish a review 3 1/2 months early.
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:12 PM
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Jason has done amazing things for all of us in the WoT community, and I may have toh for saying this, but I don't put a lot of stock in his reviews.

He thought ToM was fantastic.

http://www.dragonmount.com/index.php...f-midnight-r36

He was one of BS beta readers for ToM, as he says in his review.

To his credit, he says he didn't like ToM as well as tGS. Nor did he call it the finest in the series. He said tGS was one of the finest in the series.

I bit of over-ranking of tGS for me, and I'd put ToM in the bottom 3rd (CoT, tPoD, ToM, aCoS, WH) of the WoT books.

Anyway, my overall point is that Jason is a fan boy, to a greater degree than almost all of us on these boards, and I don't think his evaluations are very clear minded because of it.

I hope he is on the money with this one. Like I said, I probably have toh for saying it, but that's where I stand.
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Angry Druid View Post
Jason has done amazing things for all of us in the WoT community, and I may have toh for saying this, but I don't put a lot of stock in his reviews.

He thought ToM was fantastic.

http://www.dragonmount.com/index.php...f-midnight-r36

He was one of BS beta readers for ToM, as he says in his review.

To his credit, he says he didn't like ToM as well as tGS. Nor did he call it the finest in the series. He said tGS was one of the finest in the series.

I bit of over-ranking of tGS for me, and I'd put ToM in the bottom 3rd (CoT, tPoD, ToM, aCoS, WH) of the WoT books.

Anyway, my overall point is that Jason is a fan boy, to a greater degree than almost all of us on these boards, and I don't think his evaluations are very clear minded because of it.

I hope he is on the money with this one. Like I said, I probably have toh for saying it, but that's where I stand.
All that considered some of the wording made me slightly nervous.

Quote:
Sure, I can pick apart small nuances of this final book that weren’t perfect. Some little parts may not have rung as true as they could have.
Considering the source that could indicate some fair sized issues. The only book I would put ToM ahead of was CoT. Not sure I would put TGS all that much higher. The qaulity of the writing is just far too uneven, you will be clipping along doing fine only to get jarred out of the narrative on a consistent basis.
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Last edited by suttree; 09-25-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by suttree View Post
All that considered some of the wording made me slightly nervous.
Maybe Jason is satisfied with the ending because he is a closet nihilist. Let us hope he didn't find joy in the pattern unraveling and all life screaming out of existence as all becomes darkness and oblivion. All this while Moridin exhales the final relieved sigh of all creation, the final gift to him from the Dark One.
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Angry Druid View Post
Jason has done amazing things for all of us in the WoT community, and I may have toh for saying this, but I don't put a lot of stock in his reviews.

He thought ToM was fantastic.

http://www.dragonmount.com/index.php...f-midnight-r36

He was one of BS beta readers for ToM, as he says in his review.

To his credit, he says he didn't like ToM as well as tGS. Nor did he call it the finest in the series. He said tGS was one of the finest in the series.

I bit of over-ranking of tGS for me, and I'd put ToM in the bottom 3rd (CoT, tPoD, ToM, aCoS, WH) of the WoT books.

Anyway, my overall point is that Jason is a fan boy, to a greater degree than almost all of us on these boards, and I don't think his evaluations are very clear minded because of it.

I hope he is on the money with this one. Like I said, I probably have toh for saying it, but that's where I stand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suttree View Post
All that considered some of the wording made me slightly nervous.



Considering the source that could indicate some fair sized issues. The only book I would put ToM ahead of was CoT. Not sure I would put TGS all that much higher. The qaulity of the writing is just far too uneven, you will be clipping along doing fine only to get jarred out of the narrative on a consistent basis.
You're both entitled to your opinions, but I can't help but feeling that in this respect your opinions are drastically misguided.

Comparing the books that were completed by Brandon to the books written by RJ is grossly unfair, especially when comparing such nebulous qualities as consistency, style, or characterisation. Brandon Sanderson's style is always going to be different to Robert Jordan's, and he will always have to write certain characters in his own way. He says himself in his foreword to TGS that the worst thing he could possibly have done would have been to try to ape RJ's style. That would have led to WOT books that read more like a parody of the series than a continuation of it, and would have been truly horrible. With that in mind, what complaints about such matters amount to is an expression of distress that Brandon Sanderson is not Robert Jordan. He is not. We are all saddened that he isn't. But thanks to him, we are getting the end of the Wheel Of Time series; without him, we wouldn't have it, or we would have a much worse ending. For this reason, his books can't be compared to previous books in the series, nor to Brandon's own work; unfortunately, they need to be judged on their own, with their own merits and failings. Many of those failings arise simply because of the posthumous collaboration, and must therefore be excused.

At the end of the day, the question is whether you want the end of the series or not, not whether that ending, created in the way that is, compares to the earlier part. If you do want the ending, you must accept the authors of it, and accept that that ending is what it is, and does not deserve comparison to the rest of the series.
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:00 PM
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I found it a self serving posting and am sorry I read it.
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  #30  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:01 PM
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I found it a self serving posting and am sorry I read it.
Yup...me too.

Also, as to the fan-boy comments above...I think he comes off as a kiss-a$$ sometimes. Nothing personal to him as I'm sure he's a nice guy.
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  #31  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:22 PM
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Aw crap! And here I was, thinking/hoping that Jason was at least a dispassionate clear eyed beta reader. ~le sigh~

Well, I guess we now return to our regularly scheduled bickering and back stabbing, eh?

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  #32  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:38 PM
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Here Here Zombie. You really can't compare RJ with Sanderson with any level of success. They are two different animals. That said, I found myself enjoying both tGS and ToM more than I have any WOT book since LoC. Of course enjoyment is an entirely subjective standard, thus taking me back to the original point of impossibility of comparison.

Quote:
I found it a self serving posting and am sorry I read it.
Meh, while I didn't particularly find it useful, I'm not going to say it was a waste of time. But then I've always been particularly immune to most other people's opinions on most matters. Didn't lessen my enthusiasm and isn't going to stop me from formulating my own opinion once I read it.
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  #33  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:42 PM
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Meh, while I didn't particularly find it useful, I'm not going to say it was a waste of time. But then I've always been particularly immune to most other people's opinions on most matters. Didn't lessen my enthusiasm and isn't going to stop me from formulating my own opinion once I read it.
This. I said in my original post that I got chills while reading the review. That's because it really made me realize that we're that close to completing this journey.
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  #34  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Comparing the books that were completed by Brandon to the books written by RJ is grossly unfair, especially when comparing such nebulous qualities as consistency, style, or characterisation. Brandon Sanderson's style is always going to be different to Robert Jordan's, and he will always have to write certain characters in his own way. He says himself in his foreword to TGS that the worst thing he could possibly have done would have been to try to ape RJ's style. That would have led to WOT books that read more like a parody of the series than a continuation of it, and would have been truly horrible.
Well I disagree. And I've said it before, writing the last books and having them sound like RJ would not have been impossible. Perhaps impossible in the timeframe that Brandon Sanderson has done it. I actually think that it would have been a true masterpiece if he had done his very best to "ape RJ's style" and gotten away with it say 99 % of the time he did it. And I would have preferred that he did it that way. But again perhaps not possible in the timeframe. I am thankful that he is writing so fast. I also think that Harriet is thankful for that cause I doubt she'd have wanted this to drag on for another ten years after RJ's passing.

And Jason is a fanboy yes. Nothing new. I agree that those "little parts" that doesn't ring as true as they could have, has me somewhat worried.
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  #35  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:38 PM
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That would be completely dishonest and I'm glad Brandon did not go that way.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:07 PM
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I quibble a lot over the Talmanes stuff, but I wanted to quote the email Brandon sent back to me in 2008, my emphasis bolded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonSanderson
Ted,

Thanks for your email! I've been getting a lot of good wishes from Wheel of Time fans, and frankly I'm humbled at how positive and supportive everyone is being. We lost a great man, and I know I can't replace him. But I CAN make sure we all get to read that last book as he intended.

I would have liked to have been at that signing, if only to get the chance you did to speak with Mr. Jordan. In answer to your question, I haven't felt any pressure at all to do this book in any way at all, really. Harriet has allowed me to take the lead, and Tor generally doesn't pressure its authors on these matters. They just told me to write it as best I could, then turn it in and they would decide how to package it.

I think you're right, I think it will end up being a two volume set. It's going to be a BIG book, but I'm not trimming anything, and I think it will be the length that Mr. Jordan was planning it to be. I don't think he would have edited it; but he might have allowed Tor to split it for a two book set.
Despite Jason's obvious playing it close to the vest, he runs DM for heaven's sake people, I feel pretty good about the above email and how this is all going to turn out after reading what Jason wrote.


If there wasn't something to pick nits about, it wouldn't be WoT at all.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:37 AM
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And the tool in question is particularly ironic.
Delicious irony, I am among the few who loved the ending to DT the first time around.
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  #38  
Old 09-26-2012, 01:06 AM
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I found it a self serving posting and am sorry I read it.
That was pretty much exactly my thoughts on it. Except I'm only sorry I skimmed it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by The Angry Druid View Post
Jason has done amazing things for all of us in the WoT community, and I may have toh for saying this, but I don't put a lot of stock in his reviews.

He thought ToM was fantastic.

http://www.dragonmount.com/index.php...f-midnight-r36

He was one of BS beta readers for ToM, as he says in his review.

To his credit, he says he didn't like ToM as well as tGS. Nor did he call it the finest in the series. He said tGS was one of the finest in the series.

I bit of over-ranking of tGS for me, and I'd put ToM in the bottom 3rd (CoT, tPoD, ToM, aCoS, WH) of the WoT books.

Anyway, my overall point is that Jason is a fan boy, to a greater degree than almost all of us on these boards, and I don't think his evaluations are very clear minded because of it.

I hope he is on the money with this one. Like I said, I probably have toh for saying it, but that's where I stand.
I was on DM reading one of the prologue threads (and a lengthy one) more closely, and I found out that Jason originally wrote a much more critical review of ToM, but that that review was pulled and scrubbed down and replaced with a less harsh review that I linked to in my post.

I'd like to apologize to Jason for calling him a fan-boy and give credit to his original review. He did have it spot on the first time. I have toh.

What worries me now isn't that Jason can't give a good, unbiased review of the book, but that what I'm reading may not be Jason's unbiased review of the book. Or at least not what he really thinks.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:31 AM
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Would you mind providing a link to that post? Because I'm doubting it's true.
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