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  #41  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:15 PM
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"I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?"
My first instinct was that Tuon was talking to Rand, and misinterpreting as fact one of the stories she's heard about the Dragon's upbringing.

But now I prefer the Androl, son of Noal guess, above. I'm sure there's something deeper going on with Androl...
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dajoran View Post
I agree. The 'I should like...' formal tone screams Aes Sedai to me.
Funny, it just screamed awkward dialogue/bad writing to me...
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:43 PM
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I suspect we're going to be seeing alot of this in this book.
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  #44  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dajoran View Post
The 'I should like...' formal tone screams Aes Sedai to me.
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Funny, it just screamed awkward dialogue/bad writing to me...
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Originally Posted by ACOS
"Interesting," Cadsuane said when they were gone. Her dark eyes locked with Amys' blue, and Cadsuane, at least, seemed to like what she saw. At any rate, she smiled. "I should like to meet this Sorilea. She is a strong woman?" She seemed to emphasize the word "strong."
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“I should like to see these cities,” Tuon said, moving Akein nearer to Pips. “Will you show them to me, Toy?” Selucia kept the dun at Tuon’s hip. The woman looked composed enough, but doubtless she was shaken by what she had seen.
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  #45  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:58 PM
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Its still bad dialogue regardless of who wrote it.
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  #46  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:59 PM
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I suspect we're going to be seeing alot of this in this book.
You mean people trying their hardest to find ways to accuse Sanderson of bad writing?
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  #47  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:01 PM
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You mean people trying their hardest to find ways to accuse Sanderson of bad writing?
Oops, you got lost, the White Knight discussion board is over there...
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  #48  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:03 PM
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So its probably either Tuon or an Aes Sedai...I'd guess Pevara if I had to vention one.
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #49  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Its still bad dialogue regardless of who wrote it.
I knew you would say that. Just figured I'd set the record straight. (I don't see why it's awkward; it's just formal in a sort of odd way. Nothing wrong with being odd.)
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  #50  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Seriously, the Knife wouldn't work at all, as, if he has it, then he got it either from Elayne or Aviendha, which would mean that at least one other person actually knows that he has it. Which in turn directly contradicts his "Nobody knew he had it. That was important." thought.
I agree. A similar argument can be made for Justice. The wording should have been more like "Nobody but him knew its true nature. It was important."

And again for Rand having the little fat man (but it's a bit weaker): he can't possibly have found it on his own without someone handing it to him, or telling him where to find it. It's odd Rand would think "Nobody knew he had it", if for e.g. Verin's letter lead him to it.

Not that I think Verin lead him to it, IRRC she isn't aware it even exists. So it has to be someone else who handed it back to him, and in this case the "nobody knew he had it" bit no longer works.

And about Justice (or its scabbard), I agree there's something unrevealed about it, but it's unlikely to be an AOL AS-made ter'angreal or san'angreal/angreal, because Rand would know this, if not necessarily its use/properties in the case of a ter'angreal. At the beginning Rand had reflections that the sword seemed to belong with him somehow, that it felt natural or something, even as he knew it was Hawkwin's sword. In TGS toward the end he reflected LTT seemed to know something about Justice he was not willing to share (some mental block.. we'll see when we know th end of it, but that knowledge was possibly very dangerous to the Light in a dark Rand's hands, as dangerous or more as letting him have the Horn of Valere and the Banner together while he was "dark".).

He simply stopped carrying Justice not long after his reflection that LTT was hiding something about it. Post-epiphany he would of course know what LTT "was hiding" - he's got free access to all the memories now, no more mental blocks - and he started carrying Justice again, Min noticed.

"hallows" and magical treasures most often come in three in myth and legend and RJ was very, very fond of triads.

With Moiraine's "bent backward" angreal (there's probably a clue to its final story purpose hidden in its description, it's a man bent backward and holding his feet with his hands, sort of a weird ourobouros representation), Callandor and the dagger ter'angreal, we might have the relevant angreal, san'angreal and ter'angreal triad.

Then there's the OP circle: Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve.

There's the taveren triad. There's the triad of "lovers". Rand, Perrin and Egwene form a triad able to combine their efforts in TAR. Perrin has his wolves, Rand has a sword AH carried a version of in the afterworld, and Egwene's magical object could very well be her TAR ring.

And in TGH we had an unfulfilled triad: Perrin carried the Banner of the Light, Mat was the Hornsounder, but Rand got nothing. He had to be there with the Banner for the Heroes to fight, but he didn't lead the Heroes. They followed his surrogate as Heroes leader: Hawkwing. Rand didn't have Justice...

I think Justice is the third pre-AOL "magical object". LTT knows the AOL legends attached to those objects, believed like the people of his time until too late to be just that: fragments of legends. By the end he had the Banner and the sword, but the Horn had been lost. It was found again only too late, and etched by Deirdre's group with an important message, probably a foretelling that "Death was no bar to its call". Did it refer to death, to someone weirdly named Death, to the Lord of the Grave himself. They didn't know, and etched the original foretelling on the Horn itself to make sure it couldn't be lost, or corrupted. They also tried to spread it, it became the Horn's legends in the third Age.

Arthur Hawkwing had Justice, and he tried damn hard to have the Horn of Valere found in his time. A great deal of the Horn cycle originated from his times.

Post-epiphany Rand knows what LTT knows of the AOL legends surrounding "Justice", and I bet those legends connect it to the Banner, and it's why LTT was given these two antique objects and got named "The Dragon". He probably didn't believe in those legends, and never liked the title, but much like Perrin ended up doing about the Wolf Banner, he understood it was an important symbol of hope and unity to believers in those legends who wanted him to be the incarnation of some legendary Dragon (probably the Children of the Dragon... i.e.: the Da'shain Aiel). But the AOLers didn't know the legends of the Horn were connected to the legends of the Dragon (sword and banner).

Rand has learned the Banner and Horn are connected. LTT knows the Sword and Banner are connected. Rand probably puzzled out the three objects are related, but possibly not why and how at this point. He's gonna have to put together all that's known about each object, and reverse-engineer the original myth, find the missing link Moiraine was already after back in TGH.

Birgitte could help him with this, technically dead yet alive, she probably knows some of the answers. She still has some HoH knowledge Rand incarnated doesn't have. Rand doesn't yet know an Hero with still much of her "dead Hero" memories is around. He'll know the second he sees Birgitte at Elayne's side. Of course, the final answers/insights Rand might get only as he dies and becomes the sum of all Dragons since the dawn of time.

Justice blinding DF as someone proposed, an effect of Rand carrying it? Could be something like that.
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  #51  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:09 PM
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I knew you would say that. Just figured I'd set the record straight. (I don't see why it's awkward; it's just formal in a sort of odd way. Nothing wrong with being odd.)
Say it out loud...its just weird. Any of the three passages (this one and the two you quoted).

Its not George Lucas level dialogue but its still blocky.

Overall though, you are right that it points to someone who is very formal in their speech...like Tuon or an Aes Sedai. Pevara is the obvious guess but perhaps a red herring.
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  #52  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:13 PM
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By the end he had the Banner and the sword, but the Horn had been lost

The Sword, Banner and Horn were all gifts from Death. You see, three brothers were traveling when they came upon a river at sunset. Before crossing it, Death appeared to the brothers.


On Birgitte helping, I was under the impression that most of her memories had faded to nothingness at this point...certainly anything from AoL or earlier.
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #53  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:14 PM
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Day#2.

I'm gonna go with someone (likely Pevara) talking with that Domani man at the BT telling tall tales (perhaps he now even claims his father really was Jain Farstrider and he's been to Shara with him. Pevara would know very well Jain Charin is Malkieri, not Domani).
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  #54  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
The Sword, Banner and Horn were all gifts from Death. You see, three brothers were traveling when they came upon a river at sunset. Before crossing it, Death appeared to the brothers.
I know it's extremely similar to Rowling, but Rowling and Jordan both drew heavy inspiration from the celtic folklore. The triads RJ was so fond of come from Arthuriana, the whole celtic culture and indo-european influences. Rowling didn't invent the legend of the hallows, she just re arranged it to make them boons given by Death to brothers. There are even versions of such legends connected with Arthuriana.



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On Birgitte helping, I was under the impression that most of her memories had faded to nothingness at this point...certainly anything from AoL or earlier.
Again, I know. There's no evidence she's lost memories of her TAR state yet. The rules the Heroes follow, etc. I'm not suggesting she remembers the Horn-Sword-Banner from the Age (or even turning) it was made in, I'm suggesting the Heroes in TAR are connected to those objects and Birgitte might still remember scraps or hints she could give Rand. Telling Rand he is a Hero of the Horn would already be a start...

Last edited by Dom; 11-27-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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  #55  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:26 PM
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Both are very good points, Dom.
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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Old 11-27-2012, 03:42 PM
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Day#2.

I'm gonna go with someone (likely Pevara) talking with that Domani man at the BT telling tall tales (perhaps he now even claims his father really was Jain Farstrider and he's been to Shara with him. Pevara would know very well Jain Charin is Malkieri, not Domani).

Agreed, the skeptic in me can't help but imagine Tor employees giggling to one another after reading message board folk overanalyze minute pieces of unimportant dialogue.

But, despite that, this is pretty fun!
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:21 PM
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Agreed, the skeptic in me can't help but imagine Tor employees giggling to one another after reading message board folk overanalyze minute pieces of unimportant dialogue.

But, despite that, this is pretty fun!

You can be sure they're having a lot of fun, and it's very likely several of those bits and pieces have been selected precisely for that purpose. Then, occasionally, we'll get a more meaningful bit and the fun will be that we completely miss its true relevance, or the top of the top: laughing their asses off as the person closest to the truth gets attacked from all sides for the "stupidity" of his/her suggestion...

But yeah, they love all this (not in a mean way, though, more in a Brandon sort of way). And they know we love this too...
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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Its still bad dialogue regardless of who wrote it.
No, it's just formal. And as others have guessed, it suggests strongly an AS or a noble.

I like the Pevara guess. But Cadsuane and Tuon are possibilities as well.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Res_Ipsa View Post
Day #1 "It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important."
Still seems a little off. Who's this? LTT or Rand? I would expect Rand to think like a typical 3rd ager lad of twenty with three years of very atypical experiences under his belt. LTT would probably be more cultured and more eccentric. And why assume no one knows?

LTT would probably be surprised to find an angreal that escaped Ishamael's 3000year search. Or more likely suspicious of it. Rand is more likely to believe he missed it.

But still a good one from BS.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:22 PM
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I always thought that Min was the scabbard for Rand's sword...
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