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  #181  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:05 PM
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Here's some stuff from the beginning of tFoH:


I'm pretty sure Evanellein and Andaya are the first named Grays we meet (though I kinda remember Evanellein is Black...?). I think it's also the first time the Gray's function is mentioned outside of the glossary.

What's up with the Shadow Coast? It's barely ever mentioned from what I remember, except for someone saying the Ogier aren't very hospitible there or something. But "Shadow" Coast seems like a pretty ominous name for a place we really never see/hear about.

At one point in the prologue Elaida recalls Siuan telling her, while being tortured, that the Forsaken were free. But how did Siuan know this? I remember thinking it was odd that Moiraine distinctly did NOT tell Siuan about Aginor and Balthamel back in Fal Dara. Unless Moiraine sent Siuan word about Sammael or Be'lal, or Siuan somehow figured out that Rand really battled Ishamael at Falme, how would she know the Forsaken are free?

In Fain's PoV he still seems to want the Horn almost as much as the dagger. Why? Does he still think he can buy influence with someone with it? Is he aware that Mat already blew it?

Fain seems to think Alviarin is able to sense what he really is. Is this kind of an early stage of Fain being to sense another DF and he just doesn't realize it?

Fain tells Elaida that in order to control Rand she must "tie a string to one of the few he trusts." Does Elaida just ignore this? I don't really remember her trying to buy any of Rand's friends or allies.

Lanfear seems to be living in a white palace (both at the end of tSR and the beginning of tFoH). Any idea where this is?

At the Forsaken meeting in Caemlyn, Lanfear says, "First, someone else is trying to control him [Rand]. Perhaps to kill. I suspect Moghedien or Demandred." Does this just refer to Moggy's plan to get the sad bracelets or something else?

When Min sees the angry family of the barn they burned down, she thinks that "She had seen a crowd with this mood once--at an execution." Presumably this would have been in Baerlon. Are executions common there, or is this someone specific she saw killed?

Well, I've been keeping an eye out for palaces with sky and bird paintings on the ceilings to try to tell where Lanfear was when Perrin saw her in TAR in tDR. So far the Stone of Tear, the Palace in Caemlyn, and (from what I remember) the Tarasin Palace all have these, lol. One thing that's always sort of annoyed me about RJ's description is the palaces. Each and every one of them is described as almost identical, almost word for word. They're all a "mass of domes and towers" or something like that, and the interior hallways all have wall niches and hangings--it's all basically the same no matter what palace you're in.

What happened to the guy who half fell through the Eelfinn doorway in Rhuidean? I remember he's kind of loopy afterward and eventually runs away. But what happened to his head? Would the same have happened to Mat if he'd left before getting his wishes? Also, isn't his name Herid? There's no possibility he's the same as Herid Fel, is there?

I find it interesting that the clan chief Bruan is described as being more loyal to Rand than even Rhuarc. Seems a little suspicious, but I don't think anything ever comes of it. Do we ever see any DF Aiel aside from Melindhra?

Rand calls Moiraine "little sister," and it's clearly a LTT memory. But what does it mean? Is it something LTT, as Tamyrlin, would have called lesser AS? I remember Someshta called Loial little brother...

At one point Rand mentions Asmo's harp:
Quote:
tFoH 2
Jasin Nateal, as he called himself here, lay half-sprawled on cushions against one of the windowless walls, softly playing the harp perched on his knee, its upper arm carved and gilded to resemble the creatures on Rand's forearms. Dragons, the Aiel called them. Rand had only suspicions where Natael had gotten the thing.
What are Rand's suspicions? Where did the harp come from?


When Rand has his first LTT memory of Ilyena, he doesn't recognize the name. Yet when Moiraine, Siuan, and Verin are talking about the Dark Prophecy in tGH, they mention Ilyena, so she's definately known to be LTT's wife. Is Rand just ignorant of this fact? Or is he just being purposefully ignorant of it?
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  #182  
Old 09-17-2014, 06:02 PM
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When Rand has his first LTT memory of Ilyena, he doesn't recognize the name. Yet when Moiraine, Siuan, and Verin are talking about the Dark Prophecy in tGH, they mention Ilyena, so she's definately known to be LTT's wife. Is Rand just ignorant of this fact? Or is he just being purposefully ignorant of it?
I'd imagine that that fact isn't very well known outside of scholar-circles. The average Randlander probably isn't really aware of LTT's family other than "LTT killed his entire family". Thus, its not surprising that all 3 AS know the name but it wouldn't be expected for Rand to know it.
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  #183  
Old 09-17-2014, 06:21 PM
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They're all a "mass of domes and towers" or something like that, and the interior hallways all have wall niches and hangings--it's all basically the same no matter what palace you're in.
Well...











to be fair, they all do tend to look fairly similar in style.

BTW, that's Buckingham, the Winter Palace, Blenheim, Madrid, and Oslo for reference.
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  #184  
Old 09-18-2014, 05:18 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
I'm pretty sure Evanellein and Andaya are the first named Grays we meet (though I kinda remember Evanellein is Black...?). I think it's also the first time the Gray's function is mentioned outside of the glossary.
In TSR (which you've supposedly read) it is mentioned that Joiya Byir is (or was, whichever applies) Gray Ajah.

Quote:
What's up with the Shadow Coast? It's barely ever mentioned from what I remember, except for someone saying the Ogier aren't very hospitible there or something. But "Shadow" Coast seems like a pretty ominous name for a place we really never see/hear about.
It's a red herring; a fairly big one too at that.

Quote:
At one point in the prologue Elaida recalls Siuan telling her, while being tortured, that the Forsaken were free. But how did Siuan know this? I remember thinking it was odd that Moiraine distinctly did NOT tell Siuan about Aginor and Balthamel back in Fal Dara. Unless Moiraine sent Siuan word about Sammael or Be'lal, or Siuan somehow figured out that Rand really battled Ishamael at Falme, how would she know the Forsaken are free?
Perhaps Min told her. Min knew from Lanfear that at least Lanfear and Ishamael were free (see their meeting in TGH for this), so it isn't too unreasonable to think that the others would have been free as well.

Quote:
In Fain's PoV he still seems to want the Horn almost as much as the dagger. Why? Does he still think he can buy influence with someone with it? Is he aware that Mat already blew it?
Power was an obsession for Mordeth, and when it comes to obsessions Fain doesn't seem too discriminating.

Quote:
Well, I've been keeping an eye out for palaces with sky and bird paintings on the ceilings to try to tell where Lanfear was when Perrin saw her in TAR in tDR. So far the Stone of Tear, the Palace in Caemlyn, and (from what I remember) the Tarasin Palace all have these, lol. One thing that's always sort of annoyed me about RJ's description is the palaces. Each and every one of them is described as almost identical, almost word for word. They're all a "mass of domes and towers" or something like that, and the interior hallways all have wall niches and hangings--it's all basically the same no matter what palace you're in.
Fashion. Once one palace is acknowledged as "the most magnificent ever", all other rulers want one like that, only even more so. Thus, their architects add more domes and more towers to structures that had already started out fairly similar for the same reason 300 years earlier.

Quote:
What happened to the guy who half fell through the Eelfinn doorway in Rhuidean? I remember he's kind of loopy afterward and eventually runs away. But what happened to his head? Would the same have happened to Mat if he'd left before getting his wishes?
Probably not.
With that doorway, there are a couple of issues that wouldn't have affected an ordinary visitor.
First, there's the issue of the different "speed of time". If you pass through in a proper way, then you will be shielded from that. If you're half in and half out and then are dragged out again, the shielding may not work as well. So this fellow's sense of time would get a serious hit.
Second, there is the "you can only pass through it once in and once out" thing. Half of this guy did that, the other half didn't, so he can and can't go in there again. I don't know what that does to someone, and it is not something I would be eager to try first hand.

Quote:
I find it interesting that the clan chief Bruan is described as being more loyal to Rand than even Rhuarc. Seems a little suspicious, but I don't think anything ever comes of it. Do we ever see any DF Aiel aside from Melindhra?
There are the Red Veils. Apart from them, not noticeably, no.

Quote:
When Rand has his first LTT memory of Ilyena, he doesn't recognize the name. Yet when Moiraine, Siuan, and Verin are talking about the Dark Prophecy in tGH, they mention Ilyena, so she's definately known to be LTT's wife. Is Rand just ignorant of this fact? Or is he just being purposefully ignorant of it?
Maybe LTT's pronounciation was sufficiently different to make the name unrecognisable to Rand, even though Rand was aware of her name from the stories.
A similar case would be that of Mary Magdalena, where the second part of that name is often pronounced as "Maudlin" in English speaking places. If you're only familiar with "Mary Maudlin", then hearing about a "Miriam Magdalini" (the eta may have been pronounced as an 'i' in Greek) might not ring a bell.
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  #185  
Old 09-18-2014, 11:36 PM
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Yeah, I know there's precedence for palaces looking the same. It's just from a creativity standpoint, I would have expected more from RJ. I know they're different stories and all, but Westeros has Winterfell, the Red Keep, the Twins, Pyke, Castle Black, etc. All of which are described extremely differently from one another. It's not a big deal; just a little thing I wish RJ could have done a little differently.



A few more things from tFoH:

Rand's room in Rhuidean is described as being fairly strange. It's pretty small, possibly a servant's room (as Rand thinks), but has a really tall ceiling. There are no windows, but there's a fireplace with a mosaic of vines around it. My thought was, could this room have been built for Someshta? When Rand and co. meet him in tEotW he says he visited Avendesora 2,000 previously (though that may be a mistake), so it's possible I guess. Someshta might even prefer a room with no windows in the middle of a desert with little vegetation.

Rand seems clueless as to how to cleanse the taint despite the Aelfinn having told him how to do so in the previous book. I know Rand doesn't know what their answer means, but he should know that there is an answer to this question.

I forget, do Darkhounds always melt and reform when killed? I don't think the one Perrin shot in tDR did. Also, why can't they reform on the ancient symbol of the AS? Shouldn't it just be symbolic? Or is that mosaic in Rhuidean more significant than just a mundane mosaic?

Moiraine moves around a lot in the opening Rand chapters. First Rand sees her in the plaza with Kadere, then she appears in the doorway a few seconds later. She goes back to the plaza, then makes her way to the sweat tent before Egwene can get there. Then she shows up literally seconds after the Darkhound attack. Finally, she almost keeps pace with a 6'6"-ish Rand as he runs at full speed to Mat's room.

Asmo claims he can't teach Rand Traveling because he's not strong enough. But Sorilea was able to show the weave to Cadsuane, so I guess this is just something Asmo was able to keep back from Rand.

This isn't important or anything really, but I noticed it mentions that LTT and Lanfear knew each other since before they could channel (or at least since they started learning to channel): "He pushed away a sudden memory of this woman in his arms, both of them young and just learning what they could do with the power." Nothing important as far as I know. Just something I never noticed before.
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  #186  
Old 09-19-2014, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Rand's room in Rhuidean is described as being fairly strange. It's pretty small, possibly a servant's room (as Rand thinks), but has a really tall ceiling. There are no windows, but there's a fireplace with a mosaic of vines around it. My thought was, could this room have been built for Someshta? When Rand and co. meet him in tEotW he says he visited Avendesora 2,000 previously (though that may be a mistake), so it's possible I guess. Someshta might even prefer a room with no windows in the middle of a desert with little vegetation.
Someshta is taller than Loial, who is taller than Rand. So a room that would be pretty small for Rand would be downright cramped for Someshta, I think.

Quote:
I forget, do Darkhounds always melt and reform when killed? I don't think the one Perrin shot in tDR did. Also, why can't they reform on the ancient symbol of the AS? Shouldn't it just be symbolic? Or is that mosaic in Rhuidean more significant than just a mundane mosaic?
If you kill them in the right way, they stay dead. If you don't, you get a second chance.

Quote:
Moiraine moves around a lot in the opening Rand chapters. First Rand sees her in the plaza with Kadere, then she appears in the doorway a few seconds later. She goes back to the plaza, then makes her way to the sweat tent before Egwene can get there. Then she shows up literally seconds after the Darkhound attack. Finally, she almost keeps pace with a 6'6"-ish Rand as he runs at full speed to Mat's room.
She probably read "how to Travel and then forget you can do that" in the same book in which she had learned how to use balefire. The title of that book was Channeling For Dummies.

Quote:
Asmo claims he can't teach Rand Traveling because he's not strong enough. But Sorilea was able to show the weave to Cadsuane, so I guess this is just something Asmo was able to keep back from Rand.
Asmodean is used to either being able to use a weave, or not being able to learn it in the first place. So he doesn't even think of the option of showing the weave with insufficient power to make it work. Sorilea, on the other hand, has a fairly long life time filled with experience where she can learn but can't use that learning herself, so to her this is a very normal situation.
Thus, I think that Asmodean could have shown Rand if he had thought of it, but it never even entered his mind that this possibility existed.

Quote:
This isn't important or anything really, but I noticed it mentions that LTT and Lanfear knew each other since before they could channel (or at least since they started learning to channel): "He pushed away a sudden memory of this woman in his arms, both of them young and just learning what they could do with the power." Nothing important as far as I know. Just something I never noticed before.
They may have met in the train to Hogwarts.
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  #187  
Old 09-19-2014, 08:38 AM
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I have often wondered about that room.

RJ described it in a way that I think he expected us to know what it was. However, I never figured it out.
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  #188  
Old 09-20-2014, 08:02 PM
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I have often wondered about that room.

RJ described it in a way that I think he expected us to know what it was. However, I never figured it out.
Me too. The sad thing is that it's probably ridiculously obvious once you figure it out.

No idea though.
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  #189  
Old 09-21-2014, 04:38 AM
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Me too. The sad thing is that it's probably ridiculously obvious once you figure it out.
If it is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer, then the answer can't be anything other than "Graendal".
Which, I admit, does raise some new questions.
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  #190  
Old 09-24-2014, 03:02 PM
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It's somewhat interesting that Ronde Macura mentions that forkroot comes from the Shadow Coast.

Macura tells Luci that she discovered forkroot hinders the ability to channel by accident. So who did she accidentally discover it with?

After Elayne and Nynaeve and co. are gone, Macura sends a message north to TV and a duplicate message west. Where is she sending this to? Tanchico? Are we supposed to know who receives it?

Immediately after, the pigeon keeper Avi Shendar reads what Macura wrote and sends another letter in a third direction. So what's he up to? I noticed that later in Sienda (where Elayne and Nynaeve meet Galad) that there's another pigeon keeper there. Is there just a network of Darkfriend pigeon keepers in the area? Moghedien will later tell Liandrin and the other BAs that Nynaeve was last seen in Sienda, so it seems likely the pigeon guys are reporting to her.

Siuan mentions that there used to be a Blue eyes-and-ears in Four Kings. I wonder if she reported to Siuan when Rand blew half the inn up there back in tEotW...

Valan Luca mentions that the "boar-horses" come from Shara, and everyone (including readers, I'm guessing) assume he's just lying/boasting. But has he really been there? Obviously the elephants are really from Seanchan, as they have the Seanchan trainer with them. But if Randlanders get their ivory from Shara, there are presumably elephants there (or maybe just other animals that had ivory horns/tusks). Also, Luca knows the name "Shara," something even Thom admitted he'd never heard until the Sea Folk mention it in tSR. Luca's tales of headless monsters and giants are probably made up, but I think it's possible he's a least visited a port city in Shara.

It's mentioned that Birgitte's clothing style is 2,000 years old, yet when Ariena shows up it's remarked how her clothes are almost the same as Birgitte's...

For all the talk of how time is very different in TAR vs the real world, we never really see someone spend an hour in TAR and wake to discover three days have gone by. Or five seconds or whatever.

While in Elaida's office in the WT, Egwene creates a nightmare to attack Nynaeve. Afterward, she implies that Nynaeve could have escaped by simply wishing herself elsewhere. But isn't this not the case? Don't you have to destroy the nightmare by realizing it isn't real in order to escape?

Why are Reds and Blues historically against each other? Wouldn't it make more sense for Reds and Greens to hate each other, as their philosophies are almost opposites? I know (at least I think I know) that the stilled Red Amyrlins were replaced with Blues, but is that really enough to spark the antagonism between the two?

Nynaeve tells Egwene she never took the forkroot, and immediately thinks this is the first time she's ever lied to Egwene. Apparently she forgot that she lied about seeing the Forsaken in TAR (it was really Birgitte who did it for her) about ten seconds earlier.

When Egwene tries to visit Rand in Chapter 15, she witnesses this:
Quote:
tFoH 15
Abruptly he flipped back through the pages, read, then laughed. She tried to tell herself there was nothing of madness in that laugh, only bitterness. "A fine joke," he told Natael, snapping the book shut and tossing it to him. "Read page two hundred eighty-seven and page four hundred, and tell me if you don't agree."
Is this just a random comment, or is it significant? Is there anything special about those pages in the hardback copy of tFoH? (I only have the mass market).

Also, Egwene thinks the book is a translation of the Prophecies. Are they really over 400 pages? If so, we've seen an extremely tiny percentage of the prophecies.

Egwene mentions a dream she had of Rand "sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken." Who is this? I thought Morgase at first, but she's never really "murderously angry" toward Rand, is she? Is it Colavaere?

Egwene also has a dream of Perrin kissing Faile, with a Tinker standing in the background. It's obviously Aram, so why doesn't Egwene recognize him? Is it just a blurry dream thing or something?

Also, what's Aram's "chill of doom" that happens every time he steps closer to Perrin? Did RJ originally intend for Aram to be more significant than he ultimately was?

Does anyone else picture Valan Luca as acting like Tim Curry?

I never noticed this before (from Luca):
Quote:
tFoH 17
"And you, my dear Nana? What surprising talent do you have? Tumbling, perhaps? Swallowing swords?"
I'm not really sure if that was intentional on RJ's part, though, or if I just have a dirty mind lol.

Are there any theories as to what Rianna Andomeran, Jeaine Caide, and Berylla Naron are sent to do? I know two of them (Rianna and Jeaine?) eventually get cameos in aMoL. Wasn't there a theory they were sent to influence Masema or something?
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  #191  
Old 09-26-2014, 03:26 PM
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Here's a bunch more stuff from tFoH:



Why was Morgase sent to Tar Valon? She was just the heir to House Trakand, not the heir to the throne. So was it just a random decision that just happened to work out for her in gaining an alliance of sorts with TV?

How does Tallanvor know Basel Gill, and how would he know his loyalties and whether or not he can really trust him?

In Jangai Pass, Rand sees a huge carving of a snake encircling a staff. Sounds sort of similar to Hermes' staff (minus the wings at the top).

It's mentioned that Rand tried keeping up with the Aiel on foot, but he couldn't do it for more than half a day. Yet he was easily able to outrun Moiraine and co. in tDR.

I think I've asked this before somewhere, but is it possible Tam killed Laman to end the Aiel War? Laman's sword has the heron, meaning that Tam could have earned his blademaster sword by killing him. It seems unlikely I know, but if Tam realized that killing Laman would end the war...

Here's something interesting I didn't remember from before...Mat mentions that Fades "did not die completely except with a setting sun." Does this mean Fades die quicker if you kill them at night, or that they'll still live for 23 hours if you kill them an hour after sunset?

When Rand balefires the first Draghkar to attack him in Jangai Pass, shouldn't Aviendha teleport back into the tent? The only reason she came out was because she heard the Draghkar's song, so sending it back in time only a few seconds should also send Aviendha back as well, right?

Rand notes that Moiraine didn't rush to him right away during the attack, and all she says is, "I have never explained what I do or do not do. [...] I cannot hold your hand forever. Eventually, you must walk alone." Obviously she's alluding to her death in Cairhien, but still, why didn't she go to Rand right away? Just because she won't always be there to protect him doesn't mean she should stop while she still can.

How does Moghedien make Egwene dream about Galad and Gawyn and her family (while trying to trap her in TAR)? It must tap into Egwene's subconscious somehow, because Moghedien presumably doesn't know much about how Egwene's parents would act, or even where they live.

Min has a viewing of a raven tattoo around Carlinya. Has Brandon said it was just a mistake that he had her killed off by the BA?

AS can't use the OP as a weapon, but they can use it to torture each other apparently. Is this something all AS can do, or do have to have the right mindset to believe that torture is not a weapon? Ie, Elaida and Alviarin are pretty cruel and so can torture Siuan, but maybe someone weak like Shemerin would be unable to torture someone with the OP?

I thought this was a cool detail I hadn't noticed before: "The chairback behind [Sheriam's] fire-red head was incongruously carved with what seemed to be a mass of snakes fighting." This makes her look like Medusa, and might also allude to the snaky square chapter icon later used to symbolize the Forsaken.

I forget, was Siuan planning to have Egwene as Amyrlin all along?

Siuan knows that Aiel WOs can channel, and also that the Aiel are the People of the Dragon, despite the fact that Moiraine and seemingly everyone else is ignorant of these facts. Wouldn't it have been sort of helpful for Siuan to admit that she knew the Stone of Tear would fall to the Aiel? She would have read the Prophecies, I assume, so she should have known immediately that "the Stone won't fall until the People of the Dragon come etc." refered to the Aiel.

I remember Brandon saying somewhere (I think one of his writing workshops on Youtube probably) that Randland is actaully very small, no where near the size of America, and how a land that big would be ridiculous for a fantasy book. Yet Siuan says she followed the renegade AS "nearly two-thousand miles" from Tar Valon to Salidar. Just by looking at the map and eyeballing basic measurements, this seems to indicate that Randland is pretty much the exact same size as the US.

In Kadere's PoV he thinks "Perhaps he would get to see Tar Valon again. A dangerous place, for his sort, but the work there was always important, and invigorating." So Kadere's been to TV before. Did we see any of the effects of him being there? Was he involved in the Gray Man attacks at all? Was he with the DFs chasing Mat around? (in which case, does he recognize Mat when he meets him in the Waste?)

Why did Melindhra contact Kadere? They never really do anything together, do they? And how did she know he was a DF in the first place?

For some reason, I never realized before that Aviendha Traveled to southern Seanchan. I guess I always just assumed it was in the northern hemisphere. Is it safe to assume, then, that she literally did Travel to the exact part of the earth furthest from where she originally started in Cairhien? I guess before I just assumed she randomly went to somewhere that was simply "far away."

Rand mentions that it's never rained in the Waste except when he made it with the OP. Is this even possible? Even the driest deserts in real life get at least a little rain, right? Are there underground reservoirs all over the Waste, like in Rhuidean?

I thought this was pretty interesting. Something I don't remember at all from other reads. When Rand and Aviendha talk about marrying each other in the igloo, Aviendha says "By your customs, I did not have my mother's permission. And you would need your father's, I suppose. Or your father-brothers, since your father is dead? We did not have them, so we cannot marry." Does Rand really have uncles, and other relatives via Janduin, all over the place in the Waste? I never thoguht about that before. I don't think this is ever mentioned again in the series, is it?

Why doesn't Rand recognize the raken? Didn't he see them at Falme?

And as far as I remember, Rand should already know that the sul'dam can channel too.
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Old 09-26-2014, 07:48 PM
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In Jangai Pass, Rand sees a huge carving of a snake encircling a staff. Sounds sort of similar to Hermes' staff (minus the wings at the top).
Probably this. Hermes' staff is called the caduceus by the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius
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  #193  
Old 09-27-2014, 04:47 AM
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Why was Morgase sent to Tar Valon? She was just the heir to House Trakand, not the heir to the throne. So was it just a random decision that just happened to work out for her in gaining an alliance of sorts with TV?
The throne has been held by a number of Andoran Houses, so it may be that she was send there just on the off chance that an opportunity presented itself. I wouldn't be too surprised if more Andoran Houses had such a policy.

Quote:
I think I've asked this before somewhere, but is it possible Tam killed Laman to end the Aiel War? Laman's sword has the heron, meaning that Tam could have earned his blademaster sword by killing him. It seems unlikely I know, but if Tam realized that killing Laman would end the war...
It seems unlikely. The way things work, I would suspect that Rand's birth and Laman's death happened at the same moment, and that would leave very little time for Tam to get away from whatever mess was caused by such regicide, lose all pursuers, climb the mountain and find the baby.

Edited to add: the BWB says that it was the Aiel who killed Laman, and in a number of places where Aiel speak about the affair it is suggested that this was the case, though it is never said explicitly.

Quote:
Here's something interesting I didn't remember from before...Mat mentions that Fades "did not die completely except with a setting sun." Does this mean Fades die quicker if you kill them at night, or that they'll still live for 23 hours if you kill them an hour after sunset?
On the one hand: they'd still be alive (sort of) that long. On the other hand: it is more likely that this is just a somewhat exaggerated description of how difficult it is to kill a Fade.

Quote:
When Rand balefires the first Draghkar to attack him in Jangai Pass, shouldn't Aviendha teleport back into the tent? The only reason she came out was because she heard the Draghkar's song, so sending it back in time only a few seconds should also send Aviendha back as well, right?
Well, yes, but there is the

Quote:
Rand notes that Moiraine didn't rush to him right away during the attack, and all she says is, "I have never explained what I do or do not do. [...] I cannot hold your hand forever. Eventually, you must walk alone." Obviously she's alluding to her death in Cairhien, but still, why didn't she go to Rand right away? Just because she won't always be there to protect him doesn't mean she should stop while she still can.
I suspect that if she had known what was going on precisely, she would have (tried to) come to his aid immediately. But she didn't, and then either she would admit being fallible (something she's not keen on doing) or give a mysterious but not untrue answer.

Quote:
I forget, was Siuan planning to have Egwene as Amyrlin all along?
Definitely not while Siuan was still Amyrlin. Afterwards, I think she was at first trying to figure out what she could actually still do. I don't think even she knew precisely when she decided to install Egwene as puppet Amyrlin.

Quote:
Rand mentions that it's never rained in the Waste except when he made it with the OP. Is this even possible? Even the driest deserts in real life get at least a little rain, right? Are there underground reservoirs all over the Waste, like in Rhuidean?
It is quite possible that even the driest places on Earth get some rain. But on the other hand, there is a fairly reliable record that it has not rained in the Atacama Desert in South America for at least 400 years. How long ago the last rainfall there was is unknown; our records of the place don't go back further than those 400 years, which is why we can be confident of that figure. Because it is so dry there, it is a good place for astronomy, so a lot of big telescopes are placed there.

Quote:
I thought this was pretty interesting. Something I don't remember at all from other reads. When Rand and Aviendha talk about marrying each other in the igloo, Aviendha says "By your customs, I did not have my mother's permission. And you would need your father's, I suppose. Or your father-brothers, since your father is dead? We did not have them, so we cannot marry." Does Rand really have uncles, and other relatives via Janduin, all over the place in the Waste? I never thoguht about that before. I don't think this is ever mentioned again in the series, is it?
There are vague hints to other Aiel relatives, but no more. Of course, if she'd thought things through, then Aviendha would probably have realised that Rand needd permission from Tam.

Quote:
Why doesn't Rand recognize the raken? Didn't he see them at Falme?
He was a bit busy at the time.

Quote:
And as far as I remember, Rand should already know that the sul'dam can channel too.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't know how much he had been told about that issue. Then again, it is possible that someone else will manage to dig up a relevant quote.
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:02 AM
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Also, Egwene thinks the book is a translation of the Prophecies. Are they really over 400 pages? If so, we've seen an extremely tiny percentage of the prophecies.
RJ was asked about the Prophecies of the Dragon; he indicated that if written out, they would be fairly lengthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Interview: Jun 27th, 1996
AOL Chat 1

Belsamar
OK. Let's see if this works. Hello, RJ. Just out of curiosity, do your predictions (Foretellings and Min's viewings) have a well, Delphic quality by accident, or by choice? And did you ever think of writing a copy of The Prophecies of the Dragon?

Robert Jordan
There's very little in the books that's by accident—very little...and no, I've never thought of writing out the complete Prophecies of the Dragon. As already stated in a previous book, they would comprise a volume of some 300 to 400 pages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rand
Min has a viewing of a raven tattoo around Carlinya. Has Brandon said it was just a mistake that he had her killed off by the BA?
Maria answered this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria
Interview: Apr, 2012
Afternoon Tea with Brandon Sanderson - Luckers

Luckers
What was the stylized raven that Min viewed around Carlinya?

Brandon Sanderson

I thought that had already been answered. Did Jim not answer this?

Luckers
No. Everyone thought it referred to Carlinya being da’covale to the Empress. But no, it hasn’t been answered.

Brandon Sanderson
Oh. Oh, okay. Well, I will RAFO/MAFO it. You can email Maria and me about it, but I may have to RAFO it.

Maria Simons
The raven is a symbol of the Dark One as well as the Seanchan; Carlinya was killed fighting the Black Ajah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rand
I remember Brandon saying somewhere (I think one of his writing workshops on Youtube probably) that Randland is actaully very small, no where near the size of America, and how a land that big would be ridiculous for a fantasy book. Yet Siuan says she followed the renegade AS "nearly two-thousand miles" from Tar Valon to Salidar. Just by looking at the map and eyeballing basic measurements, this seems to indicate that Randland is pretty much the exact same size as the US.
If Brandon did say something like that, I don't believe that it's in the database. However, if it's from a writing workshop, those aren't transcribed, so that wouldn't be in there.

Anyway, the map of the entire world in the BWB has a scale on it, and that makes it clear that Randland and the rest of the continent as well as Seanchan, the Land of Madmen, etc, make the world similar in size to earth; it is supposed to be a future/past earth, after all.

Also RJ has given some rough distances in Q&As and these are roughly in accord with BWB map:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Interview: Aug 23rd, 1996
ACOS Signing Report - Lara Beaton

Robert Jordan

Randland size: Randland is approximately 4500 miles across. Seanchan is as big as Randland, the Aiel Waste, and Shara all put together (a single empire the size of North and South America).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Interview: Aug 23rd, 1996
ACOS Signing Report - Robert Watson

Robert Watson
Hi, There seems to have been much discussion about Randland size recently, and section (2.08) of the FAQ, "Geography of Randland" didn't have any info, so we (myself, Lara, and Greebs) took it upon ourselves to ask about this at the Vancouver signing (Friday 23rd).

Robert Jordan

From the Spine to the Aryth Ocean is 4-5000 miles; RJ compared Seanchan to the Americas, as one landmass. He made it clear that the Seanchan Empire is big.
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  #195  
Old 09-29-2014, 12:32 AM
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It is quite possible that even the driest places on Earth get some rain. But on the other hand, there is a fairly reliable record that it has not rained in the Atacama Desert in South America for at least 400 years. How long ago the last rainfall there was is unknown; our records of the place don't go back further than those 400 years, which is why we can be confident of that figure. Because it is so dry there, it is a good place for astronomy, so a lot of big telescopes are placed there.
I think it's only certain places in the Atacama that don't get rain. The desert as a whole still has an average annual rainfall (though it's probably extremely low). So I guess it's possible that an area the size of the Waste never gets rain, but not all that likely.


@Marie: Thanks for the info. I didn't know Maria had responded to the Carlinya thing. Though FWIW, Min specifically says the viewing is of a raven tattoo, not just a raven, so I would guess RJ still meant it to refer to the Seanchan.
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  #196  
Old 09-29-2014, 04:24 AM
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I think it's only certain places in the Atacama that don't get rain. The desert as a whole still has an average annual rainfall (though it's probably extremely low). So I guess it's possible that an area the size of the Waste never gets rain, but not all that likely.
From what I've read of it, the interior of Pangaea was a desert with very little rain. If there were sufficiently high mountain ranges at the right places, then very substantial desert areas there would not have gotten any rain at all.

It simply depends on the geography; if the Spine of the World is in the way of the prevailing winds, then that would draw out all moisture and the Waste would only get dry air, which wouldn't produce rain.
According to the descriptions, there is a marshy area in the south (adjoining the ocean) which may get some rain, but is for other reasons not really suitable for habitation.
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:41 PM
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Couldn't Nynaeve have just studied a map and read all the names to find Salidar? Granted, they may not have been able to get one, but it would have been easier than riding around the countryside in the off-chance Nynaeve will remember the name at some point.

For that matter, how does Nynaeve know where Salidar is when she does hear it from Galad? I can't imagine one of the very few things she learned in the Tower was the location of some obscure town connected with the Blues.

Also, a town that's historically significant to the Blues should be one of the first places Elaida searches for them. Maybe it is, based on the letter Nynaeve read, unless the location was betrayed right away by Beonin or someone.

It seems like a bit of a stretch that Birgitte could survive getting thrown 90 feet through the air and hit a wagon so hard she bounces back fifteen feet.

Thom tells Elayne that the Borderlands are the only nations to escape the Great Game entirely. Is this a little naive on Thom's part? Someone like him should know that even the Borderlands engage in some kind of political manuevering. It isn't completely absent just because of Trolloc raids.

When Elayne bonds Birgitte, she says she knew how because she saw two AS bonding their Warders. Where would she have seen this? Presumably they don't just bond the guys in the WT hallways. And I'm also guessing Elayne didn't sneak into their rooms to watch them do it in private.

Birgitte remembers hearing about a female Warder "in a life so long ago that I cannot remember more than that." Is this just a mistake, or does it imply that channelers once knew the weave for bonding, forgot it in the AoL, then remembered it again in modern times?

How does Elayne learn how to perfectly tight rope walk on her first try without the OP? And do handstands and backflips and cartwheels, no less...

Is it possible the menagerie owner Mairin Gomes is Marrilin Gemalphin in disguise? Admittedly I'm saying this mostly because of the similarity in names, but when Moghedien gives Marrilin her instructions she is "surprised, and then eager, but she had been a Brown, and Browns could be enthusiastic over anything that allowed them a chance to unearth some moldy bit of lost knowledge." Getting assigned to run a menagerie would be surprising, but a former Brown might be eager to study the rare animals there. My thought was that Moghedien has her following Masema around. We also know one of the menageries was attacked by a mob because the WCs suspected one of the performers of being a channeler, though I'm not sure if that show is ever identified as being Mairin Gome's.

Shouldn't Uno and Ragan realize beforehand that asking Masema and the Whitecloaks to each secure a ship is a good way to start a riot?

I know very little about archery, but is it really possible to consistently hit a target from six hundred feet away with a longbow, as the Two Rivers men can apparently do?

Rand notes that Weiramon's symbol is similar to Lanfear's. And obviously he turns out to be a DF. But is there anything connecting him to Lanfear, or is the similarity just supposed to be a hint that he's connected with the Shadow?

Rand keeps thinking that Min's the only woman who's never made him feel like a confused idiot, but the only time we really see them interact is when Min scares the crap out of him with her viewings back in Baerlon.

I forget if this is ever answered, but why did rioters burn down the graneries in Cairhien after the king was assassinated? Is there some connection between the two, or did it just seem like a good idea at the time...?

How were Couladin's fake dragons made? If they were just illusion, could Asmodean have removed them any time?

I found this exchange between Rand, Asmo, and Lan interesting:
Quote:
tFoH 42
"Play 'March of Death,'" [Rand commanded][...] "Play it, unless you know know a sadder. Play something to make your soul weep. If you have one still."

Natael gave him an ingratiating smile and a seated bow, but he went white around the eyes. It was indeed 'The March of Death' that be began, yet it had a sharper edge on his harp than ever before, a dirgelike keen that surely would make any soul weep. He stared fixedly at Rand as if hoping to see some effect.

Turning away, Rand stretched out on the carpets with his head to the maps and a red-and-gold cushion under his elbow. "Lan, would you ask the others to come in now?"

The Warder made a formal bow before stepping outside. It was the first time that he had ever done that, but Rand noticed only absently.
Does this indicate that Lan recognizes Asmo for what he is (more or less) and bows to Rand in respect for it? Assuming Moiraine hasn't mentioned Asmo to Lan, Rand's comments about Natael having no soul should surely arouse Lan's suspicions.


The WOs clearly know about the Three Oathes, as they know about the no lying part. So shouldn't they be suspicious when Egwene fights in the battle at Cairhien but Moiraine doesn't?

If Mat was able to guess the entire battle scheme in Cairhien he should have known where to go/not go in order to escape the area. Of course, there's ta'veren and all that which probably wouldn't have let him, but still. He even notes that he was a fool for riding right where he assumed Rand's troops would be headed.

If 'los caba'drin' means 'horsemen foreward,' then does Liandrin mean 'something-horse'?

How do they Aiel tell the difference between what clan they're in just by looking at each other? They all where the same thing, right?

Is it ever mentioned if the Cairhienin remember that Rand is the "Andoran lord" they were all excited about back in tGH? I think it was mentioned back then that every lord and lady sent Rand an invitation, so people like Dobraine and Colavaere should already be familiar with him (well, sort of, at least).



Ok, here's a few random things that don't really have anything to do with tFoH specifically:

I've wondered before why Tam join the army in Illian of all places. Is it possible he just sailed down the Manatherendrelle from Taren Ferry all the way to Illian?

Are there any female Whitecloaks? Or any females associated with them at all? They seem like pretty much the only male-dominated society in all of Randland.



Not sure if this is coincidence or not, but I found it interesting that on the colored map at the front of the book, you can draw straight lines between a lot of the cities.

For example:
-Maradon, Chachin, Shol Arbela, Fal Moran

-Bandar Eban, Katar, Emond's Field, Whitebridge, Far Madding, Godan

-Cairhien, Caemlyn, Lugard, Salidar

-Amador, Salidar, Tear, Godan

-Illian, Caemlyn, Tar Valon

-Illian, Far Madding, Aringill, Cairhien

-Falme, Baerlon, Cairhien

-Mayene, Godan, Aringill, Maradon

-Tanchico, Elmora, Tear, Godan

-Ebou Dar, Lugard, Four Kings

-Elmora, Jehennah, Whitebridge, Cairhien

-Chachin, Tar Valon, Cairhien

-Falme, Baerlon, Cairhien

-Shol Arbela, Tar Valon, Far Madding

-etc.

Obviously there are a lot of cities on the map, but it seems like this must have been intentional, at least to some extent, right? I think I included every city in the map in at least one of those connections. Is this significant at all? Maybe you can draw a shape between some of the cities or something?
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Old 10-03-2014, 05:34 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Birgitte remembers hearing about a female Warder "in a life so long ago that I cannot remember more than that." Is this just a mistake, or does it imply that channelers once knew the weave for bonding, forgot it in the AoL, then remembered it again in modern times?
Birgitte may at that point still have had a memory from the previous Fifth Age, when tales about Egeanin were still being told.

Quote:
How does Elayne learn how to perfectly tight rope walk on her first try without the OP? And do handstands and backflips and cartwheels, no less...
A selection effect. In all those alternative worlds where she didn't, the DO won.

Quote:
I know very little about archery, but is it really possible to consistently hit a target from six hundred feet away with a longbow, as the Two Rivers men can apparently do?
They don't have quite that range, but aside from that: yes. Assuming, at least, that there is no wind, that they have perfect arrows, and that their targets are tied down so that they do not make any kind of unexpected movement at all (Tam misses once because his target was unkind enough to be killed prematurely by another TR archer).

Quote:
Rand keeps thinking that Min's the only woman who's never made him feel like a confused idiot, but the only time we really see them interact is when Min scares the crap out of him with her viewings back in Baerlon.
Yeah, but Rand was also coming down with post-channeling malady at the time, so he doesn't remember that episode very well. Which makes it look a lot better, apparently.

Quote:
The WOs clearly know about the Three Oathes, as they know about the no lying part. So shouldn't they be suspicious when Egwene fights in the battle at Cairhien but Moiraine doesn't?
They may have assumed that Egwene thought she was fighting to preserve her life (if Rand died, all AS would be lost too) while Moiraine wasn't convinced of that.
I never really figured out why any AS could think that a threat to the DR wasn't sufficient to meet the qualifications for the Third Oath.

Quote:
How do they Aiel tell the difference between what clan they're in just by looking at each other? They all where the same thing, right?
Yeah, apart from the fact that the Taardad have yellow embroidery, the Nakai use green, the ... or perhaps something similar to that. It is not at all surprising that they could spot differences they've trained their whole life to notice that Wetlanders overlook because they never think those specific differences could be important at all.

Quote:
Is it ever mentioned if the Cairhienin remember that Rand is the "Andoran lord" they were all excited about back in tGH? I think it was mentioned back then that every lord and lady sent Rand an invitation, so people like Dobraine and Colavaere should already be familiar with him (well, sort of, at least).
They no doubt forgot all about him. However, at least some of them should have had sufficiently competent secretaries to have made notes of that event, and to have combined the two later on. On the other hand, it is quite believable that none of them really could figure out how to use that knowledge in their attempts to seize the throne.

Quote:
Are there any female Whitecloaks? Or any females associated with them at all? They seem like pretty much the only male-dominated society in all of Randland.
There's the Gleemen And Bards Union (GABU) which also is closed to women.
But it is a bit surprising that there aren't any Whiteskirts, now that you mention it.

Quote:
Not sure if this is coincidence or not, but I found it interesting that on the colored map at the front of the book, you can draw straight lines between a lot of the cities.

...

Obviously there are a lot of cities on the map, but it seems like this must have been intentional, at least to some extent, right? I think I included every city in the map in at least one of those connections. Is this significant at all? Maybe you can draw a shape between some of the cities or something?
At a guess, I'd say that this is simply another example of the canals on Mars: if you place a whole bunch of dots on a globe, then you can draw a lot of straight lines through them and thus produce what seems to be a meaningful pattern. Doesn't quite prove the pattern is not there, but it is a strong warning against assuming that it is any more than coincidence.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:19 AM
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Gonzo
Birgitte may at that point still have had a memory from the previous Fifth Age, when tales about Egeanin were still being told.
That's true. But if that's the case the tales could have been about Birgitte herself, I suppose.


Here's a weird random thing I thought of: is it possible to Travel out of TAR back into the real world while you're asleep? Would there then be two of you? Would the one that Traveled out of TAR disappear once the original woke up?

When Nynaeve packs their Seal away before they leave for Salidar, she can feel the DO through it stronger than ever. And later it breaks on the journey. Is this just coincidence or was the DO actively trying to break that particular Seal just then? And did Moghedien have any role in breaking it on the journey?

The battle at Cairhien makes an interesting parallel with the Last Battle. Both times the main bad guy (Couladin and Demandred) desperately want to face Rand, but have to settle for Mat instead. Also, Perrin plays little to no role on either...

When Nynaeve and Elayne visit Emond's Field in TAR, they see the plinth on the green that's carved with "mostly Two Rivers names." Who else's names would be on it from outside the TR? Alanna's Warder Owein? Some Tinkers?

Also when they're in TAR, Nynaeve and Elayne get attacked by a unicorn thing. They laugh it off and think it's silly, but is this something Moghedien made in a half-assed attempt to hurt them?

Why is Birgitte so adamant about not letting Egwene know about her? She's already revealed herself to Nynaeve, Elayne, and even Perrin. Plus, now that she's ripped out of TAR, she doesn't need to follow the precepts anymore, right?

When they meet with Egwene and the WOs, Egwene makes it seem as though she'll tell Rand about Salidar:
Quote:
tFoH 49
"Rand will want to know about Masema. And Salidar. If I can make him stand still long enough to listen."
Apparently this never happens, though. Doesn't Rand have to spy on them to eventually learn about it?


Nynaeve keeps getting reminded of the taste of boiled catfern and powdered mavinsleaf that Egwene made her drink...except Egwene never made her drink it.

The Salidar AS conclude that three Seals to the DO's prison remain. How do they know about the two in Falme and the one in Rhuidean? Did Nynaeve and Elyane even know of those? They also presumably don't know about the one Taim later "finds" in a farm.

Since Min always sees viewings around channelers and Warders, shouldn't she be able to tell that "Marigan's" a channeler based on all the viewings she must see around her?

Does Egwene ever tell anyone she knows Min loves Rand (based on the end of tGH)? It seems like she's just all too happy to hand him over to Elayne. And clearly she never mention Min + Rand to Elayne.

Last edited by rand; 10-06-2014 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 10-06-2014, 04:29 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
That's true. But if that's the case the tales could have been about Birgitte herself, I suppose.
Well, yes, if there were any stories about her, then that's a possibility too I guess.

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When Nynaeve and Elayne visit Emond's Field in TAR, they see the plinth on the green that's carved with "mostly Two Rivers names." Who else's names would be on it from outside the TR? Alanna's Warder Owein? Some Tinkers?
Perhaps some Whitecloaks too.

Quote:
Since Min always sees viewings around channelers and Warders, shouldn't she be able to tell that "Marigan's" a channeler based on all the viewings she must see around her?
I suspect that Min was getting a bit overwhelmed with viewings at the time, and therefore didn't notice anything strange when she got such viewings around one more person.
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