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  #21  
Old 09-20-2009, 09:20 AM
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Terez, your interpretation of the Karatheon cycle and *finn prophecies is very simplistic and literal. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, the prophecies are still very fickle and open to interpretation, they leave plenty of room for the author to decide in the last moment what to actually do.
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  #22  
Old 09-20-2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Powerslave
Terez, your interpretation of the Karatheon cycle and *finn prophecies is very simplistic and literal. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, the prophecies are still very fickle and open to interpretation, they leave plenty of room for the author to decide in the last moment what to actually do.
Depends on what sort of prophecy you're talking about. When the 'finns told Mat he would die and live again, they meant exactly that. There's no reason to assume it would be different for what they said to Rand - we know they speak the truth. Also, Min gets the words along with the viewing, and she said straight out that Alivia will help Rand die...not that she would help him fake his death.

The last post has nothing to do with the prophecies, and everything to do with the difference between dying and not dying.

It doesn't matter how much you guys try to twist the words and what we knows about how these prophecies work - Rand is going to die.
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Rand is going to die.
What is the meaning of "is"?
  #24  
Old 09-20-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez
No, because there's a big difference between being dead and in the afterlife, and being alive in someone else's body. You've either woken from the dream, or you haven't.

Or you could be "Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives". I say if his body dies he is dead so that satisfy's the "dead" bit. You say as long as his soul has not passed on he is not dead which satisfy's the "yet lives" bit.
  #25  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FelixPax
You missed the bonds to L.T.T, and the two warder's bonds of Elayne to Birgette, and Alanna to Ihvon who are then connected to Rand.

I guess if count Lanfear possibly, you might want to also consider Egwene who felt drawn to Rand after the events of Falme. Or every Aes Sedai, whoever has healed Rand in the past maybe too: Verin, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Samitsu etc.
I was counting only primary bonds, not any that his bondees had with other people. Lanfear is obviously speculative, especially since we have no evidence of any effect of that "mark".
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
No, because there's a big difference between being dead and in the afterlife, and being alive in someone else's body. You've either woken from the dream, or you haven't.
Are Aginor, Balthamel and Ishamael dead or alive? (Yes I know Aginor is dead again but was he really dead the first time at tEotW? )
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Are Aginor, Balthamel and Ishamael dead or alive? (Yes I know Aginor is dead again but was he really dead the first time at tEotW? )
Clearly Ishamael never died. It was just a clever ruse. Possibly the cleverest ruse of all time!

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  #28  
Old 09-20-2009, 01:20 PM
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How about Cyndane?
  #29  
Old 09-20-2009, 01:51 PM
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How about Cyndane?
Plastic surgery.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Depends on what sort of prophecy you're talking about. When the 'finns told Mat he would die and live again, they meant exactly that. There's no reason to assume it would be different for what they said to Rand - we know they speak the truth. Also, Min gets the words along with the viewing, and she said straight out that Alivia will help Rand die...not that she would help him fake his death.
When Rand Balefired Rahvin, he actually erased the event of Mat's death from the Pattern. Cause if he didn't, Mat would be dead. But he is very much alive. So Mat never went to the afterlife, cause he never got struck by lightning, his death never happened. Oh but everyone saw, they have memories of him dying! And many will probably see Rand die, Alivia will make sure of it. But the question is, if a tree falls in the forrest, and no one is there to hear it, did it make a sound?

As to the *finns. Yes, they always speak the truth, but they never give straight answers. Even the example of Mat you bring up, isn't very straight forward. And Rand's answer aren't either. "The West and south must be as one, the east and north must be as one". Now, exactly where do you divide those two halves on the map. What cites need to be Seanchan controlled exactly for them to have spoken truth? Rand is interpreting it like "you can say the east and south are controlled by the Seanchan...".
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  #31  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Belazamon
Plastic surgery.
...that made her shorter.
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  #32  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by creepybob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belazamon
Plastic surgery.
...that made her shorter.
Well, it's obvious that she was going her own way and The DO cut her off at the knees.
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  #33  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Powerslave
"The West and south must be as one, the east and north must be as one". Now, exactly where do you divide those two halves on the map.
If you lay a straight edge on the mapa from Bandar Eban to Illian, it runs very close to very close to Garen's Wall on the Northeast border of Ghealdan.

If you drop back to the borders of Arad Doman and Illian to cut the poins off the triangle, the Seanchan already control everything except Ghealdan (and may control that as well by the time a "Truce In Place" is arranged.)

I doubt that Elayne would countenance a division along the Manatherendrelle and Adoun rivers, nor would Rand give Baerlon and Emmond's Field over to Seanchan control.

A Truce In Place is going to determine where the dividing line is drawn, but I suspect it's going to be on that Garen's Wall line minus the cities at the corners and possibly minus Ghealdan.
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  #34  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Well, it's obvious that she was going her own way and The DO cut her off at the knees.
I was gonna go with bone shaving, but that sounds more Great-Lord-esque.
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  #35  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Belazamon
I was gonna go with bone shaving, but that sounds more Great-Lord-esque.
Of course, she could just be shorter because Shadar Haran deflated her Ego.
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  #36  
Old 09-20-2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Of course, she could just be shorter because Shadar Haran deflated her Ego.
Don't you know? In medieval China everyone believed that you were shorter in the afterlife. Significantly shorter.

That's where Cyndane comes from :P
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  #37  
Old 09-20-2009, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepybob
Don't you know? In medieval China everyone believed that you were shorter in the afterlife. Significantly shorter.

That's where Cyndane comes from :P
She comes from Medieval China?

I'm assuming Portal Stones are somehow involved, then...?
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  #38  
Old 09-20-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belazamon
She comes from Medieval China?

I'm assuming Portal Stones are somehow involved, then...?
Duh! Cyndane is obviously that blond chick in every anime cartoon. The one with the improbably large breasts and constant scowl.
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  #39  
Old 09-20-2009, 06:17 PM
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Mybe Lanfear just wore really big platform shoes and lost them in Finnland and now all the stores she used to shop in were destroyed by her friends in the War of Power.
  #40  
Old 09-21-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
Mybe Lanfear just wore really big platform shoes and lost them in Finnland and now all the stores she used to shop in were destroyed by her friends in the War of Power.
See? I told you all she was enhanced.
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