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  #41  
Old 11-11-2009, 10:25 AM
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Sammael had been setting it up beforehand.
When Rand went to Illian, he had to wait a time. During that time, Sammael was driving Trollocs into Shadar Logoth, and setting up all his other traps (whatever they were). Plenty of time for Moridin to figure out that something was up, and to stay to see what was going to happen next.
  #42  
Old 11-11-2009, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
I think he was there to make sure Rand killed Sammael. After all, earlier in the book Sammael had bragged to Graendal about having been promised Nae'blis, and Moridin was spying on them at the time. From his thoughts, it seems clear Moridin believed that was a real possibility. So of course he wanted Sammael out of the game.
Same answer, he would have been in the middle of the OP conflict, very chancy. Better to wait where they would end up traveling too
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat
Sammael had been setting it up beforehand.
When Rand went to Illian, he had to wait a time. During that time, Sammael was driving Trollocs into Shadar Logoth, and setting up all his other traps (whatever they were). Plenty of time for Moridin to figure out that something was up, and to stay to see what was going to happen next.
could be
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2009, 02:51 PM
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Yeah, but he seemed to imply in several passages that he could control the pattern and cause someone's heart to stop just because he willed it. That would go beyond his effects "getting stronger" into ridiculous proportions. We've never even heard of anything like this until this book, and so I was wondering:

A) if it was even true. Rand could theoretically be talking out of his ass (although a shadow came around him both times and his aura became more menacing.

B) if it is true, is it directly caused by his exposure to the True Power? We don't see say anything like that until 5 minutes after he balefired Semirhage with the True Power.
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2009, 03:20 PM
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I think it was a case of megalomania or Rand's part rather than something that could actually happen. Or, depending on how far gone you think Rand was, maybe he would kill her with the True Power and no one would know how it happened.
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2009, 04:04 PM
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I think that the most simple answer is probably the most likely in this instance. Rand was simply trying to intimidate Cadsuane.

On a side note, did anyone else pick up on how philosophical a question that was? If he willed it, would the Pattern make her heart stop? This isn't the kind of question Rand has been pondering through the preceding books. Might this be more of Moridin/Ishamael coming through and being portrayed by Rand?
  #47  
Old 11-11-2009, 05:08 PM
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As for Rand somehow balefiring the Dark One with the TP, or sealing him back in the Bore, I don't see it happening. The primary reason is that the Dark One is the source of the TP - you can't access or channel it without his consent. I doubt he'd be like, "Oh sure, use my own power to eradicate me and/or seal me in the Bore again."

Second, RJ said somewhere that the amount of the One Power it would take to balefire the Dark One would destroy the world. Even if Rand were able to use the TP, I would assume that to destroy the Dark One he'd have to use enough to destroy the world.
  #48  
Old 11-15-2009, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy
And perhaps Rand will re-seal the Bore with the TP, so there's nothing to taint.
Well, blending saidar and saidin with shaitan could be one interpretation of: "He shall weild a blade of light, and the three shall become one."

Trying would probably kill him, and where could he find a strong enough woman to help him do it, I wonder?

Last edited by Greyman; 11-15-2009 at 01:58 AM.
  #49  
Old 11-15-2009, 02:50 AM
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I got the impression that Rand was not bluffing. I think he is managing some level of control over his ta'verenness. Mat can control his dicing luck, and make himself lose; it seems like Rand is doing something similar. Cadsuane found out that Rand's ta'veren effects have all been negative in Bandar Eban. Rand made the grain go bad. Rand made the balconies fall. He's been having an emo fit with his ta'veren super powers instead of using them like Mat.
  #50  
Old 11-15-2009, 01:44 PM
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Funny enough, Rand doesn't seem to mind threatening to kill people anymore. He used to. Did I hear he even threatened Tuon, a woman?

How times change.
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  #51  
Old 11-15-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdsaf3
Second, RJ said somewhere that the amount of the One Power it would take to balefire the Dark One would destroy the world.
Assuming this is accurate, I don't think it's just a comparison.
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  #52  
Old 11-15-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
I got the impression that Rand was not bluffing. I think he is managing some level of control over his ta'verenness. Mat can control his dicing luck, and make himself lose; it seems like Rand is doing something similar. Cadsuane found out that Rand's ta'veren effects have all been negative in Bandar Eban. Rand made the grain go bad. Rand made the balconies fall. He's been having an emo fit with his ta'veren super powers instead of using them like Mat.
Me, too. Something in the way Cadsuane thought to herself that she knew if she did not leave, she would die made it seem real. Also, the menacing aura seemed to take over when he said it both times.

Do you attribute this to the TP, or just Rand growing darker in general?
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  #53  
Old 11-15-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeyRoad
Me, too. Something in the way Cadsuane thought to herself that she knew if she did not leave, she would die made it seem real. Also, the menacing aura seemed to take over when he said it both times.

Do you attribute this to the TP, or just Rand growing darker in general?
I think it was the TP taint personally. It seemed to be affecting all his actions from the time he used it to free himself.
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  #54  
Old 11-15-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neilbert
I got the impression that Rand was not bluffing. I think he is managing some level of control over his ta'verenness. Mat can control his dicing luck, and make himself lose; it seems like Rand is doing something similar. Cadsuane found out that Rand's ta'veren effects have all been negative in Bandar Eban. Rand made the grain go bad. Rand made the balconies fall. He's been having an emo fit with his ta'veren super powers instead of using them like Mat.
Nah he was definitely bluffing. He asks it as a question to make her think it through, because she called him out on the killing women bit. I think he was just trying to highlight how meaningless she was in comparison to him.

And Mat can't control his luck. He just says, sometimes the best throw is a losing throw. Therefore, he'd be lucky to lose.

As for his ta'verenness being bad now, thats not necessarily true. I was of the opinion the grain failing was the DO's touch; god knows half the last few books have been detailing how everything spoils easily. And the balconies is one isolated event.
  #55  
Old 11-15-2009, 04:32 PM
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BS has confirmed that the food spoilage is Rand, not the Dark One.
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  #56  
Old 11-15-2009, 05:21 PM
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Rand channels a lot more than most channelers.

A. He is as strong as anyone, and therefore channels a higher volume of the OP

B. He uses extremely powerful sa'angrael, the like of which really no one in the series uses (minus Nynaeve during the cleansing), which further increases the volume he channels

C. He holds the power much more often than most, and channels as often as just about anyone we've seen

All of this points to the fact that Rand is probably a bit more addicted to the OP than most, not that that has any major implications in the novels.
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  #57  
Old 11-15-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy
Perhaps one of Callandor's flaws is that it can amplify TP as well as Saidin. Wouldn't THAT be fun to watch.
This would make perfect sense. Especially since we know that Callandor enhanced the taint on saidin, which would translate perfectly into enhancing the Dark One's essence (which theoretically the taint is a manifestation of as well).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
BS has confirmed that the food spoilage is Rand, not the Dark One.
Something to do with the health of the land literally being paralleled to the health of the Dragon was the context of the quote, no? Pretty interesting implications...
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Last edited by AbbeyRoad; 11-15-2009 at 05:34 PM.
  #58  
Old 11-15-2009, 05:38 PM
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Yeah, we've known about that quote forever (the land is one with the Dragon, and the Dragon one with the land). Just now got confirmation on it though, as far as it relates to food spoilage.
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  #59  
Old 11-15-2009, 05:46 PM
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Isn't it accepted that Ta'veren twists probability in line with the will of the Pattern? When Rand threatened Cadsuane, I don't think he himself knew whether or not he had that kind of power. I also think he had no idea what the TP was, could do, or the side effects of it. All he knew was that it made LTT unhappy, but so many things did that that Rand was used to ignoring him by now.

I absolutely think that Rand thinks that the only reason he was able to escape from the DB was because the Pattern bends to his will now and that's all the TP access was. I think that the shadow/warp in the air happens whenever he holds the TP and that when he does, it kicks his Ta'verenness into overdrive but directly in line with his will as opposed to in line with the will of the Pattern. Plus, every time he touches it, it corrupts his Ta'verenness more such that after the failed meeting with Tuon and return to Bandar Eben, he causes all the grain to spoil without realizing it. If it had just been the DO's touch, it would have been random parts or shipments instead of all of it. But BS confirms it if we still had doubts.
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  #60  
Old 11-15-2009, 05:54 PM
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I think he knows quite well that his True Power access had to do with the link with Moridin. He saw his face as he accessed it, and said 'It's HIM.' There's no reason to think he believed it had anything to do with being ta'veren, at least directly.
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