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  #181  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Then I apologize. But I do think some people take what Terez says as fact, especially at DM.
Even at DM it's incredibly rare.
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  #182  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:09 PM
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Obvious troll is obvious...
I mean what I said, and I thought it needed to be said. If that's trolling...we clearly have some larger disagreements.
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  #183  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:54 PM
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Roedran has been acting strange in all actuality. The fact that he never showed at the Field of Merrilor in the most recent book being the most recent :/
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  #184  
Old 06-13-2012, 04:47 PM
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I know I said I'd refrain from posting in this thread, but I just remembered a theory I saw a few years ago on this:
Quote:
"Here come the Aelfinn to steal all your bread; here come the Ogier to chop off your head." Why would the Aelfinn steal bread?
I'm doing this from memory (and I'll try to find a link), but the theory says that this childhood rhyme may have confused the Aelfinn with the Eelfinn, and that Demandred wished for the food to spoil.

Obviously the timing needs work, but it may be a corrupted Foretelling.
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  #185  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:00 PM
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If you're going to pick off my comments from Twitter and Facebook, the least you could do is read the conversations there about it. Are you my Facebook friend? There are a ton of people I don't know who are, so I have no idea.
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  #186  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
I know I said I'd refrain from posting in this thread, but I just remembered a theory I saw a few years ago on this:
I'm doing this from memory (and I'll try to find a link), but the theory says that this childhood rhyme may have confused the Aelfinn with the Eelfinn, and that Demandred wished for the food to spoil.

Obviously the timing needs work, but it may be a corrupted Foretelling.
What exactly does this have to do with the rest of the thread?? Anyway, the nursing rhyme just seems a playful corruption of Oranges and Lemons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oranges_and_Lemons

Here's the last two lines:

Here comes a candle to light you to bed,
And here comes a chopper to chop off your head!
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  #187  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:40 PM
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I was unsure whether to put this on the Sorilea thread or this one. But here is an excellent example of Cadsuane and Verin working together to 'guide' people to not just follow a course of action, but to suggest it themselves:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WH 24, Among the Counsels
"All of you may call me Eadwina," Verin said. Shalon barely suppressed a start. Kumira did not so much as blink. "Do you consider history, First Counsel?" Verin continued without looking up. "Guaire Amalasan's siege of Far Madding lasted just three weeks. A savage business, at the end."

"I doubt they want to hear about him," Cadsuane said sharply, and indeed, for some reason more than one of the Counsels looked uncomfortable. Who in the Light was this Guaire Amalasan? The name sounded vaguely familiar, but Shalon could not place it. Some shorebound conqueror, obviously.

Aleis glanced at Cadsuane, and her mouth tightened. "History records Guaire Amalasan as a remarkable general, Eadwina Sedai, perhaps second only to Artur Hawkwing himself. What brings him to mind?"

Shalon had never seen one of the Aes Sedai traveling with Cadsuane fail to heed her most casual warning as quickly as they obeyed her commands, but Verin paid no heed this time. She did not look up. "I was just thinking that he couldn't use the Power, yet he crushed Far Madding like an overripe plum." The stout little Aes Sedai paused as though something had just occurred to her. "You know, the Dragon Reborn has armies in Illian and Tear, in Andor and Cairhien. Not to mention many tens of thousands of Aiel. Very fierce, the Aiel. I wonder you can be so complacent about his Asha'man scouting you."

"I think you have frightened them quite enough," Cadsuane said firmly.

Verin finally turned from the gilded rail, her eyes open very wide, a round, startled shorebird. Her plump hands even fluttered like wings. "Oh. I didn't mean. . . . Oh, no. I would think the Dragon Reborn would have moved against you already if he intended to. No, I suspect the Seanchan. . . . You've heard of them? What we hear from Altara and farther west is really quite horrible. They seem to sweep everything before them. No, I suspect they're somewhat more important to his plans than capturing Far Madding. Unless you do something to anger him, of course, or upset his followers. But I am sure you are too intelligent to do that." She looked very innocent. There was a stir among the Counsels, the ripple that small fish made on the surface when a lionfish swam below.

Cadsuane sighed, her patience clearly at an end. "If you want to discuss the Dragon Reborn, Eadwina, you must do so without me. I want to wash my face and have some hot tea."

The First Counsel jerked as though she had forgotten Cadsuane's existence, incredible as that seemed. "Yes. Yes, of course. Cumere, Narvais, would you please escort the Wavemistress and Cadsuane Sedai to ... to my palace and make them welcome?" That slight hitch was the only sign she gave of discomfort at having Cadsuane in her dwelling. "I wish to have some further talk with Eadwina Sedai, if it pleases her." Followed by most of the Counsels, Aleis glided away along the balcony. Verin looked suddenly alarmed and uncertain as they gathered her up and swept her along. Shalon did not believe the surprise or unease any more than she had the earlier innocence. She thought she knew now where Jahar was. She just did not know why.
I don't know if Cadsuane could have pulled that off without Verin's skills, but Cadsuane's blunt personality actually played into it quite well.
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  #188  
Old 06-13-2012, 11:48 PM
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I love that the Far Madding men take little opportunities to be rebellious. Verin had to pretend not to know the customs of Far Madding, so she tipped the bearers of her sedan chair. They weren't supposed to accept, but they did, and they seemed grateful. Rand was trying to question one of the serving boys at an inn, and the guy wanted to help him or he wouldn't have said anything at all, but he was nervous because his mistress wouldn't like it if he stayed too long to talk. Rand gave him a silver mark along with the coppers for the wine, and when he brought the wine to Rand's table he thanked him for the silver.

Also, I know I'm tweeting too much when Facebook stops syncing me.
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  #189  
Old 06-14-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WH 32, A Portion of Wisdom
"Oh, dear. I'm afraid Cadsuane is very much a traditionalist in some ways, Rand. I've never actually heard her call a man uppity, but. . . ." She laid fingertips against her mouth in thought for a moment, then nodded, raindrops sliding down her face. "I believe she will listen to what you have to say, if you can manage to erase the bad impression you made on her. Or at least smudge it, as much as you can. Few sisters are impressed by titles or crowns, Rand, and Cadsuane less than any other I know. She cares much more about whether or not people are fools. If you can show her you aren't a fool, she will listen."...

...Shifting her cloak, she seemed to notice the dampness of the wool for the first time. "Oh, my. I must go dry off. I suggest you do the same." Half turned to leave, she paused and looked back over her shoulder at him. Her dark eyes were unblinking. Suddenly she did not sound muddled at all. "You could do far worse than Cadsuane for an advisor, Rand, but I doubt you could do better. If she accepts, and you truly are not a fool, you will listen to her advice."...

..."If you ask me, Mistress Farshaw, when you have a pretty husband, you need to watch your friends, too."

Watching the woman march back to the red arch, Min's eyes sparkled with the mirth that flowed along the bond, and her mouth struggled against laughing. Instead of handing the message to Rand, she broke the seal with her thumb and unfolded the letter herself, for all the world as if she were a native of this mad city.

She frowned slightly as she read, but a brief flare in the bond was the only warning he had. Crumpling the letter, she turned toward the fireplace; he bounded from the bench to snatch it from her hand just before she could toss it into the flames.

"Don't be a fool," she said, catching his wrist. She stared up at him, her large dark eyes deadly serious. All that came to him through the bond was a grim intensity. "Please don't be a fool."

"I promised Verin I'd try not," he said, but Min did not smile.
.
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  #190  
Old 06-14-2012, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WH 33, Blue Carp Street
"Yes, Mistress," the chinless fellow said, ducking his head to a stout gray-haired woman with a squint. Wrapping four meat pies in coarse paper, he handed her the package before taking her coins. "A pleasure, Mistress. The Light shine on you." She tottered away without a word, clutching the wrapped pies under her cloak, and he grimaced sourly at her back before returning his attention to Rand.
.
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  #191  
Old 06-14-2012, 07:29 AM
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Obviously everything Verin told him went straight over his head:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WH 35, With the Choedan Kal
Cadsuane took charge, issuing brisk commands, as might have been expected. One way or another, Aes Sedai always did, given half a chance, and Rand did not try to stop her....

...Cadsuane gathered the Aes Sedai around her, and Alivia and the Sea Folk Windfinder, too. Harine grumbled loudly about being excluded, until a finger pointed by Cadsuane sent her stalking across the hilltop. Moad, in his odd blue quilted coat, sat Harine down on an outcrop, and talked soothingly, though sometimes his eyes went to the surrounding trees, and then he slid a hand along the long ivory hilt of his sword. Jahar appeared from the direction of the horses, stripping the cloth wrappings from Callandor. The crystal sword, with its long clear hilt and slightly curving blade, sparkled in the pale sunlight. At an imperious gesture from Merise, he quickened his step to join her. Damer was in that group, too, and Eben. Cadsuane had not asked to use Callandor. That could pass. For now, it could.
Woolheaded sheepherder.

Now I'm reading New Spring.
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  #192  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:03 AM
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Hey, out of curiosity, why out of order?
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  #193  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Hey, out of curiosity, why out of order?
Belief and order give strength, but Terez may be too pretty for that. Will explain when see you next.
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  #194  
Old 06-14-2012, 01:40 PM
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Belief and order give strength, but Terez may be too pretty for that. Will explain when see you next.
*tears Gonzo to pieces and drinks his blood*

WHAT?
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  #195  
Old 06-14-2012, 02:50 PM
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Aye, it's like . . . thorns.

No doubt this Gonzo lad has gone fishing.
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  #196  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Hey, out of curiosity, why out of order?
There is no real accepted order for New Spring. Some people read it after COT because that's where it was published, but I figured the Cleansing was a good prelude.
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  #197  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:31 AM
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More thoughts on why after Winter's Heart is a good place to read New Spring.

1. After the Cleansing is a good place to take a break. It's better to go straight into KOD after COT because it's a bit of a cliffhanger.

2. Cadsuane generaling the Battle of Shadar Logoth was a high point for her character. Maybe her highest in the series, though she has other good moments. It's a good place to take a little side trip and learn more about her.

3. It's almost exactly in the middle of the books with no Moiraine, just after Siuan's ushering of Egwene into proper Amyrlinhood (and Egwene's ushering of Siuan into proper low-standing sisterhood) and just before the siege of Tar Valon, such as it was, begins.

4. It's just after Elayne begins to work toward gaining the Lion Throne, just after Elayne sends out her first tendrils of claim to the Sun Throne. A good place to introduce her contender.

5. Just after the deaths of Meri and Selame (with a blatant hint pointing toward Aran'gar), we meet The Three in context in New Spring, and just before the deaths of Kairen and Anaiya.

6. Several other Aes Sedai developed in the books up to Winter's Heart and especially in the books since ACOS are further developed in New Spring, some of them as whining, bleating Accepted.

7. There are hints in ACOS onward about the Vileness, and New Spring answers some questions while raising others.

8. Lan is very much a part of the action at the end of WH, not counting the Cleansing where he was guarding Min and Harine. It's funny to read about how badly he wants to avoid Aes Sedai after reading about him doing stupid shit with Rand because Nynaeve told him to.

Etc. I'm sure you could make arguments for other places, but I think it's at least as good a spot as any other. I'm about 2/3 done with it; I'll probably finish it this morning.
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  #198  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:34 AM
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I meant chronological order, but your reasoning works for me.
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  #199  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:35 AM
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I know what you meant, but hardly anyone thinks it's a good idea to read them in chronological order.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
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I know what you meant, but hardly anyone thinks it's a good idea to read them in chronological order.
That is funny, a friend just asked me this week which order he should recommend ANOTHER friend read the books. I told him I always say to read them the way they were published. I always wonder when reading newer folks posts/theories if they read New Spring first.
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