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  #21  
Old 03-06-2012, 11:51 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Um...in real life, people act stupidly and people dont share information. This isn't the age of the internet...people often operate with incomplete facts and make bad judgments.
Yeah, now, in the age of the Internet, no one would think of invading another country based on false accounts of WMD.
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2012, 11:56 AM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Yeah, now, in the age of the Internet, no one would think of invading another country based on false accounts of WMD.
I agree, although I think that there are some things that realistic people would do no matter what. Telling a depressed guy that he's going to be a father is one of those things, as I see it.
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:06 PM
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I agree, although I think that there are some things that realistic people would do no matter what. Telling a depressed guy that he's going to be a father is one of those things, as I see it.
You'd also be telling a guy who thinks he's destined to die that he wont ever be there for his kids...which could simply depress him further. Think about it, Cat's In The Cradle would start playing, he'd have a flashback of Tam teaching him how to shear a sheep or something, start crying, and then just off himself.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:45 PM
sleepinghour sleepinghour is offline
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Um...in real life, people act stupidly and people dont share information. This isn't the age of the internet...people often operate with incomplete facts and make bad judgments.
Sure, but how many people would refrain from telling a man 1) they were in love with, 2) who was extremely depressed and 3) had nothing to look forward to in life except for an imminent and probably very gruesome death, that he was going to be a father? That seems callous in the extreme.

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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
You'd also be telling a guy who thinks he's destined to die that he wont ever be there for his kids...which could simply depress him further.
It's more like the opposite, only nobody (including genius philosopher Min) seems capable of figuring that out. Aviendha isn't pregnant yet; she and Rand aren't sleeping together; the Last Battle is about to start in a matter of days. So how exactly is Aviendha going to end up pregnant with quadruples unless he survives the Last Battle?

I kept waiting for Min to say something about that, but instead we got scenes like:

RAND: Hey, Min, any viewings you haven't told me about? Remember, it's important that you tell me everything you see, particularly anything that concerns me. The fate of the world depends on you. No pressure, though!
MIN: Umm...I see an inn with a Dragon's Fang on its door. That looks pretty cool. Oh, and that chick over there is going to become Aes Sedai.
RAND: Thanks, Min. That really helps a bunch.
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:05 PM
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Aviendha isn't pregnant yet; she and Rand aren't sleeping together; the Last Battle is about to start in a matter of days. So how exactly is Aviendha going to end up pregnant with quadruples unless he survives the Last Battle?
You missed the part where all parties involved in that conception can Travel, huh? We don't know what was happening for the month before Merrilor, and it's reasonable enough that Rand went for a Holy Trinity as a final hurrah beforehand. The only reason Avi wasn't up for a little fun was she felt she needed to be a Wise One first, which Min had no way of knowing, but that hurdle has been conveniently taken care of.


FWIW, I'm a fan of Elayne getting 13x13'd just because of how much she hangs her hat on the whole "kids are safe, I can go wild" thing.
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2012, 07:56 PM
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Elayne would be all right if Admiral Ackbar followed her everywhere she went.

"What do you think, Admiral? Shall we go in and capture the Black Ajah?"

"It's a trap!"
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2012, 08:18 PM
eht slat meit eht slat meit is offline
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Sure, but how many people would refrain from telling a man 1) they were in love with, 2) who was extremely depressed and 3) had nothing to look forward to in life except for an imminent and probably very gruesome death, that he was going to be a father? That seems callous in the extreme.



It's more like the opposite, only nobody (including genius philosopher Min) seems capable of figuring that out. Aviendha isn't pregnant yet; she and Rand aren't sleeping together; the Last Battle is about to start in a matter of days. So how exactly is Aviendha going to end up pregnant with quadruples unless he survives the Last Battle?

I kept waiting for Min to say something about that, but instead we got scenes like:
I'm guessing she had her confidence in her own abilities profoundly shaken by the apparent death of Moiraine. It's one of those "hope against hope" things, that is probably what is being hinted at when she tells him he will survive.

And really, how would it look having one of your wives tell you that you can't have sex with the other one in order to ensure you survive TG?

"Oh hey, sheepherder, you could even be IMMORTAL if you never had sex with her again!"

The future viewing gimmick isn't as easy as it looks when you tie in human emotion.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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"Oh hey, sheepherder, you could even be IMMORTAL if you never had sex with her again!"
No way the Wheel lets that trick work. Somehow Rand's little swimmers would find there way through ta'veren luck.
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  #29  
Old 03-08-2012, 02:31 AM
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No way the Wheel lets that trick work. Somehow Rand's little swimmers would find there way through ta'veren luck.
Well avi has started to enjoy baths. Also please stay clear of the hot spot of thread destruction that is Her holiness the Amyrlin Seat, the watcher of lost seals, the flame of Tar Valon. Actually scratch that, does anyone think that they will get rid of the watcher of the seals part after the last battle. They probably won't because they kept it for the entire length of the 3rd age despite not knowing where a single one of the seals were. Also i don't truly hate any character in the WOT. It would be accurate to say i hate being bored by anything. Even more so if it is something i chose to do or read or play on my own. I can put up with something that is unbelievable and even enjoy it as long it is entertaining. For example The game Bayonetta was ridiculously unbelievable but it was also incredibly fun from the beginning to end. I mean driving a motorcycle into space by jumping from one piece of falling debris to another.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2012, 11:00 AM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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I find Perrin and Elayne's storylines from Winter's Heart to The Gathering Storm to be intolerably boring.

I'm in the middle of a reread, and when I was back on Fires of Heaven or Lord of Chaos, I swore to myself that I wasn't going to just skim over all the Perrin and Elayne POVs anymore. The end result is that, now that I'm on Winter's Heart, I'm reading at about 1/10th the pace of the first 6 books, because of how comparatively dull those two storylines are.

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  #31  
Old 03-08-2012, 11:11 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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You may be on to something there. The first thing I found when looking for "dull":
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Originally Posted by ToM, Prologue, Distinctions
Perrin set the length of iron aside. It cooled immediately, fading from yellow, to orange, to crimson, to a dull black. Perrin had pounded it into a misshapen nugget, perhaps the size of two fists. Master Luhhan would be ashamed to see such shoddy work. Perrin needed to discover what he was making soon, before his master returned.
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2012, 11:34 AM
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You may be on to something there. The first thing I found when looking for "dull":
I'm sometimes amazed when people say Perrin got boring in the later books. No, Perrin was just awesome in TSR. Read his first POV in TEOTW; it's the most boring thing RJ ever wrote.
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2012, 12:11 PM
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I'm sometimes amazed when people say Perrin got boring in the later books. No, Perrin was just awesome in TSR. Read his first POV in TEOTW; it's the most boring thing RJ ever wrote.
Is that the "Perrin wakes up on the side of the river" POV?

I kinda liked that one. It was boring but still informative.

Perhaps Perrin shouldnt get so much screen time...he probably is up there near the top for # of words in his POVs despite being Sir Not Appearing in this novel in tFoH.
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  #34  
Old 03-08-2012, 12:37 PM
Grig Grig is offline
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I'm sometimes amazed when people say Perrin got boring in the later books.
It's the same reason a lot of people say that the books started getting slow with [The Path of Daggers | Winter's Heart | Crossroads of Twilight]. They didn't have to wait for the earlier books to be released, so those ones flowed nicely and weren't too boring. Whereas the latter books they were waiting for, and there was little chance they could live up to expectations built up over a couple years each.

I actually rather liked Perrin's POVs in tEotW. It fit his characterization. You can tell RJ's a "method writer".
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2012, 03:47 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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I'm sometimes amazed when people say Perrin got boring in the later books. No, Perrin was just awesome in TSR. Read his first POV in TEOTW; it's the most boring thing RJ ever wrote.
People say Perrin was boring in TSR? That's ridiculous. The Scouring of the Two Rivers is one of my favorite storylines of the series. It's after that that I find Perrin boring. After leaving the Two Rivers, he frees Rand, cools his heels for a while, then goes off on a needlessly complex quest (Masema's refusal to go via a gateway to respond to Rand's summons seems like a deus ex machina to enable the rest of the plotline), and spends a significant amount of time chasing his wife with little advancement (while sharing most of the screen time with Elayne, who is playing "The West Wing" in Caemlyn).

The reason I hate Elayne's storyline is the same reason I hate Perrin's - they're the two dominant stories of that stretch of books, and both of them are spinning the tires - sitting in relatively stagnant conditions.

But none of that reflects on TSR!
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2012, 04:25 PM
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People say Perrin was boring in TSR? That's ridiculous. The Scouring of the Two Rivers is one of my favorite storylines of the series.
Terez is saying that the only time Perrin wasn't boring was in TSR, when he was awesome. Before and after, the assertion goes, he was boring.
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  #37  
Old 03-08-2012, 04:26 PM
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Grig beat me.

I have to agree on the Perrin front. I found the Perrin sections of TEotW to be very slow as well. Though his PoV in TDR, which I suppose was much of the 'main' story as we're chasing Rand at that point instead of getting his view, was good also. I can't recall if he had a section in TGH. He's picked back up some in the most recent books though. Slow start in ToM, but it got better, IMO, about half-way through when he was done 'figuring out what he was trying to make'.
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  #38  
Old 03-08-2012, 04:40 PM
Seth Baker Seth Baker is offline
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Grig beat me.

I have to agree on the Perrin front. I found the Perrin sections of TEotW to be very slow as well. Though his PoV in TDR, which I suppose was much of the 'main' story as we're chasing Rand at that point instead of getting his view, was good also. I can't recall if he had a section in TGH. He's picked back up some in the most recent books though. Slow start in ToM, but it got better, IMO, about half-way through when he was done 'figuring out what he was trying to make'.
Okay, I misread it. Yes, I find Perrin tolerable in EOTW, TGH, FOH, LOC, and TGS; I like him in TDR, TSR, and TOM; the rest of the series I find him boring as sin.
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  #39  
Old 03-08-2012, 06:04 PM
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People people you must step outside yourselves and dispassionately analyze your emotions. You don't hate Perrin. Perrin kicks ass. Even his first POV in TEOTW is cool because it's the first that isn't Rand's POV (though one of the reasons TEOTW kicks ass is that it's almost all from Rand's POV). No you all like Perrin. The one you hate is Faile she is the boring one and the only reason Perrin's storyline gets boring is that Faile tries to steal the spotlight by getting kidnapped by Shaido.

But seriously back to the original topic. I don't hate Elayne, not at any point in all the books. Her storyline gets as boring as hell when Nynaeve gets a better offer from Rand's storyline, but I never hate her. In fact the only ones of the young female main characters I do hate are Egwene and Faile and even stop hating Egwene when the siege of Tar Valon begins. I hate Faile because she is a selfish bitch and I hate early Egwene because she is shallow and quite frankly an idiot. She steadily improves book by book to the point that in KOD, TGS and TOM she almost likeable but TEOTW Egwene is worse than Faile.
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  #40  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:15 PM
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Okay, I misread it. Yes, I find Perrin tolerable in EOTW, TGH, FOH, LOC, and TGS; I like him in TDR, TSR, and TOM; the rest of the series I find him boring as sin.
He's awesome in FoH, where he didn't bother to show up for the whole book.
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