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  #21  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:20 PM
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The plot, or some semi-fan service? The chapter leaves off with Aviendha saying that she'll get Min to come over. How much do you want to bet that her being able to channel will largely her being able to perform or at least participate in the first-sisters thing between Avi & Min?
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  #22  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
The dialogue is just empty. Hardly any reactions to anything, or indications of what either one of them is thinking. And the conversation itself is very contrived in places.
Yeah, it's pretty terrible. Pevara and Androl sound like 10 years old role-playing adults.

The palm of sheer absurdity for me goes to Rand's letter and Elayne finding a blunt attempt at reverse psychology an example of fine daes'daemar that makes her proud of Rand's skills.

I have this mental image of Brandon when he created that passage remembering how he had convinced his three years old to eat his broccoli and thinking "oh yeah that was devious and brilliant of me, let's have Rand use my neat trick".

Another one of those "let's forget the details of how it happened" moments So Rand sent a letter, and Elayne found the content showed Rand's skills at daes'daemar, and as for the content, it doesnt matter an we never found out what it was :P

But overall it's the same problems as earlier. It's both bloated and rushed. Brandon as the Kevin Anderson disease of repeating the same stuff over and over from scene to scene.
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:34 PM
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The only real question here is---is Logain turned?
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:38 PM
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Dom—That reminds me of something that bothered me in the prologue that I never mentioned. Androl thinking about how clever Emarin was with insults. If your characters are being clever with insults, you don't have to insult the intelligence of your readers by saying so, nor do you have to diminish the maturity of your character by having him say so.

TT—I doubt it. I think Logain sent them both in to inspect, like Rand did with Naeff, one by one.
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  #25  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tollingtoy View Post
The only real question here is---is Logain turned?
Almost certainly not, and if he is, it means there will be a turning back. There is still glory in his future from Min's viewing, don't forget, and it's difficult to see how that glory could be anything but fleeting if he's a mindlessly evil servant of the Shadow. The foreshadowing is that he will become M'Hael, and to some extent take Rand's place over the Asha'man. Remember also that we were told in the final chapters of TOM that "Logain would soon return, and all would be right with Taim". We're told almost exactly the same thing again here - he'll always be back "soon" or "tomorrow". I think this probably means that he is in a bad situation, but is somehow eluding the Shadow - perhaps he escaped into the Blight on his way to the Town and M'Hael's forces are pursuing him. Alternately, and slightly more speculatively, perhaps it is possible for the strong-willed to resist the turning procedure; some evidence for this might be found in Egwene's ter'angreal vision where Rand claims to be holding madness at bay in the same sentence as telling her they can turn him (though obviously he hasn't been turned yet in the test). Whatever the situation, I think if Logain had been turned we'd have seen it on screen already. Something else is being set up, and the real question is what.
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  #26  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tollingtoy View Post
The only real question here is---is Logain turned?
Tollingtoy has a point. IF Logain is turned, it means a whole other layer of story telling because we're going to have to witness (from some POV or another) the resurrecting of Logain, since we know from Min's viewings, just how much awesome-sauce Logain is going to shower on the LB.
And where does this resurrecting come from? He has bonded what, 2 Aes Sedai?

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  #27  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:48 PM
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Why does Avi ask Elayne if she has Toh? Didn't she tell Rand that is exactly what you are NOT supposed to do when teaching him?
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Clearly the plot needs her to be able to channel again.
And whose plot might that be? RJ's? I know there was plenty of things open to interpretation but previous books leave a certain amount of framework that set boundaries to work within. If a 'cool idea for a scene' doesn't work within those boundaries, then give a decent explanation for why it doesn't or drop it entirely. Too bad.

Another thing, not specific to the chapter but sorta relevant nonetheless. I kept remembering an episode of the Simpsons from looooong ago, where Bart's trying to get some girl to like him and it's really awkward. She eventually says "Do you ever think anything you don't say?"
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:52 PM
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Is glory always necessarily a good thing? Aren't people seeking "glory" generally thought of as bad or shallow people?
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by suttree View Post
Why does Avi ask Elayne if she has Toh? Didn't she tell Rand that is exactly what you are NOT supposed to do when teaching him?
Mangin asks Rand the same question in around TFoH/LoC. Before Rand has him hanged.

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Originally Posted by Tollingtoy View Post
Is glory always necessarily a good thing? Aren't people seeking "glory" generally thought of as bad or shallow people?
Logain doesn't really know he has glory ahead of him.

Min, Siuan, and Leane know.
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  #31  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:07 PM
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Rand told Logain about the viewing in COT.
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  #32  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by arioch View Post
Logain doesn't really know he has glory ahead of him.
Rand told Logain about Min's viewing, so he does know that there's glory ahead.
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Originally Posted by Knife of Dreams
A faint scowl appeared on Logain’s face, and he shook his head slightly. He could not like hearing Min question her ability. Rand almost regretted telling him about her viewing of him, though it had seemed harmless encouragement at the time. The man had actually asked Aes Sedai to confirm Min’s ability, though he had been wise enough to try to keep his doubting from Rand.
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  #33  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:09 PM
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Ah. I hadn't gotten there in my current re-read yet. I was just going off my impression of Logain prior to his "escape" from the SAS.

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Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX View Post
The plot, or some semi-fan service? The chapter leaves off with Aviendha saying that she'll get Min to come over. How much do you want to bet that her being able to channel will largely her being able to perform or at least participate in the first-sisters thing between Avi & Min?
"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands and the three shall be one"

Last edited by arioch; 10-24-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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  #34  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:17 PM
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Mangin asks Rand the same question in around TFoH/LoC. Before Rand has him hanged.
Very different situation and not worded the same but meh. I guess "I must know if I have toh to you" is close enough. Avi did advise Rand against it and says it embarrases her for him to seem so ignorant however. That makes the whole thing very odd.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:17 PM
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Aren't people seeking "glory" generally thought of as bad or shallow people?
Burn my soul, that's absurd.
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  #36  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by suttree View Post
Very different situation and not worded the same but meh. I guess "I must know if I have toh to you" is close enough. Avi did advise Rand against it and says it embarrases her for him to seem so ignorant however. That makes the whole thing very odd.
Not really, when in practically the same breath she says that Wetlanders are odd and unpredictable. It didn't seem out of place to me for that reason - she doesn't really know when it comes to Wetlanders.
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Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #37  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tollingtoy View Post
Is glory always necessarily a good thing? Aren't people seeking "glory" generally thought of as bad or shallow people?
Seeking =!= finding.
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Sa souvraya niende misain ye

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Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #38  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Not really, when in practically the same breath she says that Wetlanders are odd and unpredictable. It didn't seem out of place to me for that reason - she doesn't really know when it comes to Wetlanders.
So you were the one capitalizing wetlanders!

PS—The transcript will disappear soon.
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  #39  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
So you were the one capitalizing wetlanders!

PS—The transcript will disappear soon.
Sorry! (the fact that I did it in my bits might have been a giveaway)
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Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
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  #40  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:39 PM
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So you were the one capitalizing wetlanders!

PS—The transcript will disappear soon.
It disappeared as I was reading it.
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