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  #61  
Old 01-14-2016, 11:34 AM
SomeOneElse SomeOneElse is offline
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Originally Posted by Ivhon View Post
So, as a Russian, your people must have supported what Stalin was doing, yes? After all, they did not remove him and that would have been their direct responsibility...
Yes, exactly, it was our responsibility that time. I have no idea who else you can name responsible for what a national leader does other than his people.
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  #62  
Old 01-14-2016, 11:38 AM
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Yes, exactly, it was our responsibility that time. I have no idea who else you can name responsible for what a national leader does other than his people.
Well now you're just being naive.
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  #63  
Old 01-14-2016, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Well now you're just being naive.
So you're going to tell me that tyrants pop up out of nowhere with those who work for their regimes and they have nothing in common with people they oppress.
Stalin was surely from Mars.
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  #64  
Old 01-14-2016, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SomeOneElse View Post
So you're going to tell me that tyrants pop up out of nowhere with those who work for their regimes and they have nothing in common with people they oppress.
Stalin was surely from Mars.
So why haven't you done something about Putin?
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  #65  
Old 01-14-2016, 11:55 PM
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So you're going to tell me that tyrants pop up out of nowhere with those who work for their regimes and they have nothing in common with people they oppress.
Stalin was surely from Mars.
No but you obviously fail to see the middle ground that is reality. In military terms the power is not the size of the army nor the skill of the general, but the sergeants who keep the discipline and make it so that the potential power in the army stays under the command of the general. And this is the only way the potential power of a group can be reached.

Another way to look at it would be the shepard and the sheep. The shepard needs the wool and the sheep provide, but it's not going to be smooth without the sheepdog.

The world we live in works through catalysts. In a group of people the catalyst of power is the sergeant.
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  #66  
Old 01-15-2016, 04:52 AM
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So why haven't you done something about Putin?
The problem with Putin is that he still enjoys wide support among russians no matter what Obama says. Maybe not 90%, but, according to any poll, he is the most popular politician and the only real candidate to become our next president.
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  #67  
Old 01-15-2016, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SomeOneElse View Post
The problem with Putin is that he still enjoys wide support among russians no matter what Obama says. Maybe not 90%, but, according to any poll, he is the most popular politician and the only real candidate to become our next president.
so did Stalin. According to the official polls, anyways.
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  #68  
Old 01-15-2016, 05:39 AM
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The problem with Putin is that he still enjoys wide support among russians no matter what Obama says. Maybe not 90%, but, according to any poll, he is the most popular politician and the only real candidate to become our next president.
What a coincidence. Don't give anyone else a chance to say anything in the (state controlled) media, and when someone does become influential anyway prosecute and convict them in fake trials, and it turns out that no one else can be as popular as you are. Who would have thought?

Putin didn't make the mistake that the Shah had made; he keeps control of religion.
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  #69  
Old 01-15-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
so did Stalin. According to the official polls, anyways.
I don't think any other objective poll will show that Putin isn't popular. As said, his rating won't be as high as 90+% though.
And yes Stalin is and, what a surprise, still is very popular
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Don't give anyone else a chance to say anything in the (state controlled) media, and when someone does become influential anyway prosecute and convict them in fake trials, and it turns out that no one else can be as popular as you are.
I'd say that the opposition in Russia nowadays is much lower than back in the days of USSR and, more importantly, it is less constructive in compare to the dissident movement of 1960s and later. Their problem is not Putin since his regime is not as brutal as Stalin's one and the situation with access to objective information (through internet) is not even comparable.
Regardless of what you think, those who are considered as "non-system opposition" are able to speak on TV and radio, their access to media is undoubtedly very low, but when they are seen they fail to come up with any constructive agenda. All they say most times is they want Putin out (and what they'll do next is a bit shady) or very common since like they shall do their best to fight poverty etc etc, but nothing concrete. So it turns out they are not any better than the current Putin & Co.
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  #70  
Old 01-15-2016, 06:23 PM
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This one has a certain Dixie feel...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35326090

Quote:
A German town has banned male asylum seekers from a public swimming pool after women complained of harassment.
A government official in Bornheim said men from a nearby asylum shelter would be barred until they "got the message" that such behaviour was not acceptable.
The two polls at the close of the article also paint a rather bleak picture.

Quote:
In the research, published by broadcaster ZDF (in German), 66% of the 1,203 respondents said Germany could not handle the arrivals, up from 46% in December.
Support for Chancellor Angela Merkel, under pressure over her policies to welcome refugees, also fell - with 39% of people agreeing the chancellor was doing a "good job" in this area, down from 47% in December.

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  #71  
Old 01-15-2016, 07:35 PM
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The Germans just need some breathing space with all these refugees. I'm sure they'll figure out something. Germans are quite good at figuring such things out.
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  #72  
Old 01-16-2016, 04:39 AM
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The Germans just need some breathing space with all these refugees. I'm sure they'll figure out something. Germans are quite good at figuring such things out.
Yeah, they could set some engineers to design a measuring system, or something.
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  #73  
Old 01-21-2016, 09:51 PM
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So Finland is offering etiquette classes to migrants now...

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35353310

Quote:
Migrants arriving in Finland are being offered classes on Finnish values and how to behave towards women. Concerned about a rise in the number of sexual assaults in the country, the government wants to make sure that people from very conservative cultures know what to expect in their new home.
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"But you can go out to the disco with a woman here," adds Johanna brightly. "Although remember, even if she dances with you very closely and is wearing a short skirt, that doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you."
A Somali teenager pulls his woolly hat over his ears and cradles his head in his hands as if his brain can't cope with all this new information.
"This is a very liberal country," he says incredulously. "We have a lot to learn. In my country if you make sexy with a woman you are killed!" He turns to his neighbour, a Malian man of a similar age to gauge his reaction.
"It's quite amazing," the Malian nods. "In my country a woman should not go out without her husband or brother."
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And that's why these classes are backed by the interior ministry and the police. Last autumn three asylum seekers were convicted of rape in Finland, and at the new year there was a series of sexual assaults and harassments similar to those in Cologne and Stockholm. Victims reported that the perpetrators were of Middle Eastern appearance - something Helsinki's deputy chief of police, Ilkka Koskimaki decided to go public with.
"It's difficult to talk about," he admits as we drive in a patrol car through the icy streets of the city. "But we have to tell the truth. Usually we would not reveal the ethnic background of a suspect, but these incidents, where groups of young foreign men," as he puts it, "surround a girl in a public place and harass her have become a phenomenon."
Perhaps if nothing else this recent crisis, and the subsequent rise in right wing anti-immigrant parties in Europe has made them understand America a bit more, even if they are slightly horrified at the possibility of becoming a bit too much like us...
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  #74  
Old 01-22-2016, 07:42 AM
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We had those here in Norway for a while.
Until the money started to get scarce and we threw them out (the classes that is :P).

Now there's talk about starting them up again because of the Cologne/Stockholm thing.

I think it's a great idea to be honest.
Not that I think it will stop all the rapes/harassment, but it gets people's expectations more correct, and the whole "we/they didn't know any better" argument is removed.
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  #75  
Old 01-27-2016, 08:15 PM
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Not quite sure why Germany is picking this particular fight with Russia, especially considering that the victim was only 13.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35424648

Quote:
Germany has warned Russia against politicising a case involving the alleged rape of a German-Russian girl.
The teen, named only as 13-year-old Lisa F, said she was abducted and raped by migrants, but German police have said there is no evidence of either.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said it was "clear" she had not gone missing voluntarily.
Quote:
German police concluded that sexual contact was not forced in the case of Lisa F, whose full name is protected for legal reasons.
The age of consent in Germany is 14 and prosecutors are investigating two men for child abuse.
So, 13 year old girl. She was missing for 30 hours. She and her family all insist that it was rape, and the police seem to be not-so-subtly insisting that she is just a Russian slut.
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  #76  
Old 01-27-2016, 09:08 PM
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Well the thing about rape is that it's impossible to prove either way in all but the most extreme cases. This is because the damage is not done to the body, but to the mind. Yet this is only part of the greater problem which is that society as a whole treats it as such a taboo. People aren't supposed to talk about it or even think about it and so have only the vaguest sense of what it entails and thus no way to find effective solutions.
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  #77  
Old 01-27-2016, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Well the thing about rape is that it's impossible to prove either way in all but the most extreme cases. This is because the damage is not done to the body, but to the mind. Yet this is only part of the greater problem which is that society as a whole treats it as such a taboo. People aren't supposed to talk about it or even think about it and so have only the vaguest sense of what it entails and thus no way to find effective solutions.
Even if we wish to give the benefit of the doubt to the accused, the girl is 13, and the age of consent in Germany is 14 (Which seems really young by the way. The age of consent is 17 in Illinois, and even in Mississippi it's 16), so at the very least this is statutory rape. However, when the girl and her family are calling it rape, for the police to retort that she should have made sure to put up more of a fight so that she looked more battered is bs. Could the girl be embarrassed and lying? Perhaps. But my confidence in the veracity and competence of the German police isn't particularly high at the moment.

Last edited by Kimon; 01-27-2016 at 09:32 PM.
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  #78  
Old 01-27-2016, 09:38 PM
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Even if we wish to give the benefit of the doubt to the accused, the girl is 13, and the age of consent in Germany is 14 (Which, seems really young by the way. The age of consent is 17 in Illinois, and even in Mississippi it's 16), so at the very least this is statutory rape. However, when the girl and her family are calling it rape, for the police to retort that she should have made sure to put up more of a fight so that she looked more battered is bs. Could the girl be embarrassed and lying? Perhaps. But my confidence in the veracity and competence of the German police isn't particularly high at the moment.
And if the crime didn't involve anything sexual? Make no mistake this was definitely a crime. But was it a rape?

EDIT: Sorry read it more carefully now. Yeah it's a rape.

EDIT2: I really shouldn't try to discuss this stuff in the small hours, but I'd say my point still stands. This simply was an extreme case.
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  #79  
Old 01-27-2016, 09:40 PM
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But was it a rape?
At best, it was statutory rape. So, yeah.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:08 PM
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And if the crime didn't involve anything sexual? Make no mistake this was definitely a crime. But was it a rape?
How could it not be sexual? She underwent a rape kit and there was evidence of sex. It's clearly at least statutory rape. This can't be sexual assault of a groping only variety. So it's either kidnapping and rape, or statutory rape. Either way the police seem to be going out of their way to discredit the victim and to give far too much benefit of the doubt to the accused. That is not to say that that never happens here, but when it does it usually is because the accused is a football player. This feels like a similar institutional desire to sweep it under the rug.

Just noticed your edit after hitting submit...
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